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A question for the group on travelling abroad; Why do we do it?
Topic Started: Apr 5 2010, 03:59 PM (979 Views)
jon-nyc
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Cheers
I love people watching in other countries. Its the best part of travel.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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sue
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RosemaryTwo
Apr 5 2010, 04:26 PM
I think there is something else too -- you see your own country and city differently when you return. International travel gives one better perspective.
I agree, and think that's one of the best reasons for taking your kids. They'll never take for granted, or assume, that their little world is all there is, that this is 'how it is' everywhere. I think that's huge.
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kenny
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I consider myself lucky.
I not just traveled but lived overseas for years in my 20s.

It opens the mind to other ways of thinking, living just being.
This is what I value the most.

IMHO the tourist experience, hotels and restaurants, is very different (and inferior) to actually living there if your goal is to expand your mind.
The tourist experience is one of pleasure and entertainment.
Nothing wrong with that but compared to mind-opening possibilities I see the tourist thing as little more than watching TV with all 5 senses.

Even my experience insulated me from the full local experience since I had a job that paid me in American dollars and had access to the base for products and services.
I think exchange students or Peace Corp volunteers who live with a local family have the ultimate traveling experience.

Frankly I have no desire to travel if I have to do the tourist thing.
I may do it some day if Jose wants to though.
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The 89th Key
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I like to combine the tourist/local thing as much as possible. I have no problem being a tourist...that's exactly what I am there. I want to see the coolest sights, regardless if they are popular or not. Often they are because, well, they are the coolest sights to see. I love going into inconspicuous places to eat too, trying out the local cuisine. Finally...when in Ireland, my friend and I took a bus tour of the country. Definitely the best way to see as much as possible in the shortest amount of time, and having the guide explain things along the way was very helpful. Of course, this is all assuming the vacation is only a week or two.
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sue
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kenny
Apr 6 2010, 09:24 AM
IMHO the tourist experience, hotels and restaurants, is very different (and inferior) to actually living there if your goal is to expand your mind.
The tourist experience is one of pleasure and entertainment.

Oh no doubt. But you do the best you can when a tourist. Don't let yourself go into any familiar chain stores, restaurants. Buy your toothpaste, etc. in the new city, don't pack enough of your regular brand stuff to see you through. That's how I discovered that the whole world does not sweeten their toothpastes like we north americans. Little things like that can be eye-opening.

But really, like jon said; people watching is one the best parts of travel. Sure it's pleasure and entertainment, but you can also learn an enormous amount of things about a culture by being observant.
Edited by sue, Apr 6 2010, 09:58 AM.
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Kincaid
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I hate traveling abroad. Never done it. Can't do it. Better just to hate it.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Kincaid
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Mikhailoh
Apr 6 2010, 03:49 AM
Maybe they were Brazilians.
I doubt that - I bet you could only fit 50 max in one of those.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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kenny
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Kincaid
Apr 6 2010, 10:20 AM
I hate traveling abroad. Never done it. Can't do it. Better just to hate it.
I love honest people. :hug:
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Kincaid
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Someday I'll love travel - to the extent of my budget.

About the most awesome experience I've had was traveling to Yellowstone. Pretty mild perhaps for someone that's been to Paris or Rome I suppose, but I'll get there too some day.

The first trip outside the U.S. that I want to take is where you rent the little island with one hut. Just my wife and I. Nobody else on the island. Every day a guy comes out in a little skiff with an outboard motor and brings you a block of ice for the ice box and your food/drink for the day. Just swing in a hammock. Look out at the ocean. Lay in the warm water lapping the shore. Read. Have sex again. Enjoy the food.

Ah, that will be a nice first, cleansing step.
Edited by Kincaid, Apr 6 2010, 10:41 AM.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Klaus
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Thanks for confirming all my prejudices about Americans by nobody mentioning "learning/practicing foreign languages" as a motivation for travelling abroad. ;)
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Axtremus
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Klaus
Apr 6 2010, 11:12 AM
Thanks for confirming all my prejudices about Americans by nobody mentioning "learning/practicing foreign languages" as a motivation for travelling abroad. ;)
If anything, American travelers prefer to teach foreigners English. ;)
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musicasacra
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Klaus
Apr 6 2010, 11:12 AM
Thanks for confirming all my prejudices about Americans by nobody mentioning "learning/practicing foreign languages" as a motivation for travelling abroad. ;)
When we were in Cologne, we wanted to learn and practice some German . . . but the Germans we met only wanted to practice their English on us. Oh well, I did learn a few words.

Actually, IT and I plan to do a language immersion living experience in Italy sometime. We've both studied Italian. I'd also like to do an immersion in France.

Spain was interesting -- we've both studied Spanish in the past. We found Catalan easier to understand than the Spanish.
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Axtremus
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sue
 
Don't let yourself go into any familiar chain stores, restaurants.
Or go to a familiar chain restaurants anyway but get localized food -- e.g., McDonald's shrimp sandwich in Japan, McDonald's chicken porridge in South East Asia, McDonald's french fries with vinegar or gravy in Canada instead of ketchup. Heck, check out the local Google search engines and feel smirk about the American version's lack of censorship. ;)
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kenny
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Klaus
Apr 6 2010, 11:12 AM
Thanks for confirming all my prejudices about Americans by nobody mentioning "learning/practicing foreign languages" as a motivation for travelling abroad. ;)
Sure there are exceptions but your prejudice is sound.

Another consideration is ... if you had to pick only one language to be stuck knowing when traveling in much of the world I think English may be the most useful.

Americans don't have quite as much need to know other languages compared to people from countries with less-widely used languages.

I'm not defending American's lack of skills with other languages, just observing surrounding considerations.
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apple
one of the angels
i just love to experience the different.. people, flora, fauna, vistas, architecture, food....

sadly mr. apple does not travel well.
it behooves me to behold
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RosemaryTwo
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Au contraire, Klaus. I freely made a jackass out of myself by speaking French all the time -- even when people tried out their English on me.

I even made a friend who invited my whole family to her house for dinner -- but we were leaving for London. Instead of using an adjective "american" with her, I boldly announced that my family and I were "the Americans." Lovely. :doh: I almost always find my mistakes when I hit the replay button in my mind.

And Kenny, you're right, of course. I lived with a family in France during college and thus it remains my favorite country. But travel done well can still give you a taste of a country like nothing else. I met some interesting Brits in pubs and talked to them for hours.

"Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua
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brenda
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..............
Klaus
Apr 6 2010, 11:12 AM
Thanks for confirming all my prejudices about Americans by nobody mentioning "learning/practicing foreign languages" as a motivation for travelling abroad. ;)
Nein! Klaus, do you not remember? I posted about using my German in Germany. You must now drop your prejudices about Americans. :lol2:
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Klaus
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kenny
Apr 6 2010, 11:33 AM
Another consideration is ... if you had to pick only one language to be stuck knowing when traveling in much of the world I think English may be the most useful.

Americans don't have quite as much need to know other languages compared to people from countries with less-widely used languages.

I'm not defending American's lack of skills with other languages, just observing surrounding considerations.
These are all valid considerations. But if you really want to learn about a different culture, then it is inevitable to learn the language, too. Languages reflect the mentality of their speakers a lot.

We still have many American soldiers in the area where I live. They are probably here because they were ordered to be here, so I can't blame them for anything, but in some ways it is a pity that they usually neither speak at least a little bit of German, nor do they make any other attempt to learn about the country they work in. E.g., they have their own shops with American products, their own American burger restaurants, their own everything.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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big al
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When I worked in Brazil, I learned Portuguese - not well, but as well as I could having gone there on short notice with a week's introduction to the language. I am surprised that someone stationed long-term in a country doesn't try to acquire some knowledge of the local language, customs, and culture.

I've heard the complaint about Americans time and again, but it doesn't carry very much weight with me. My children all studied a foreign language in high school. For three it was French; for one, Spanish; for the last, German. Only two of them have so far travelled somewhere that it was useful - Spanish in South Florida and French in Quebec. My high school Latin only lets me understand the Mass before the change to the vernacular.

If someone from Europe comes to the US, they only need to know English from sea to shining sea. If an American goes to Europe, he could need to speak a half dozen languages to make the grand tour around the western half of the continent without even considering Scandinavia or eastern Europe. Which ones to choose and how much time to devote to study? Throw in the rest of the world and it becomes even less practical. How's your Swahili or Mandarin?

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
big al
Apr 7 2010, 10:35 AM
If someone from Europe comes to the US, they only need to know English from sea to shining sea. If an American goes to Europe, he could need to speak a half dozen languages to make the grand tour around the western half of the continent without even considering Scandinavia or eastern Europe. Which ones to choose and how much time to devote to study? Throw in the rest of the world and it becomes even less practical. How's your Swahili or Mandarin?
Said it better than I could.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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The 89th Key
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Jambo! Habari gani?
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Axtremus
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The 89th Key
Apr 7 2010, 11:20 AM
Jambo! Habari gani?
Is that Southern for "Jimbo! How's your gyne?" :huh:
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Klaus
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big al
Apr 7 2010, 10:35 AM
If someone from Europe comes to the US, they only need to know English from sea to shining sea. If an American goes to Europe, he could need to speak a half dozen languages to make the grand tour around the western half of the continent without even considering Scandinavia or eastern Europe. Which ones to choose and how much time to devote to study? Throw in the rest of the world and it becomes even less practical. How's your Swahili or Mandarin?
I don't think this is a valid argument.

You could just as well say: Why should I read a book? There are so many books out there, I can't possibly read them all.

Communication during holidays is in my opinion only a minor reason to learn a language. You learn a lot about a different culture! That's the main issue (if you have no professional reasons to learn the language).

Furthermore, last time I checked, people on the American continent also speak in at least half a dozen different languages, so Europe and America are not that different with regard to language diversity.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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big al
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Klaus
Apr 7 2010, 11:43 AM
Furthermore, last time I checked, people on the American continent also speak in at least half a dozen different languages, so Europe and America are not that different with regard to language diversity.
Not really so. About 720 million speak English or Spanish. Add in 192 million Brazilians speaking Portuguese and the 8 million or so Québécois and you've pretty well exhausted the pool of common languages. Certainly many of those also speak a second or third language and some ethnic communities still harbor enclaves of immigrants or speakers of one of the native languages here when the Europeans arrived who have not learned the primary tongue of their region, but compared to Europe, the language barrier is much lower. Speak English and Spanish and you will be generally understood in nearly every region in the entire western hemisphere. Speak German in Spain or Italian in the Netherlands, for example, and your odds are much poorer, in my experience.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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