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| "Do Not Allow Yourself to Get Into a Discussion of the Details" | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 19 2010, 10:03 AM (943 Views) | |
| George K | Mar 20 2010, 09:05 PM Post #51 |
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Finally
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No, I don't. Do you?
So, how's that I mean, financially and all. Is Massachusetts saving money? Have any of the measures that account for the United States being rated so low in healthcare improved there? You know, life expectancy, infant mortality, satisfaction...things like that. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Axtremus | Mar 20 2010, 09:29 PM Post #52 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Feel free to compare between Massachusetts and Texas: Life expectancies by states Infant mortalities by states But don't change the subject so quickly though ... I wrote all that stuff to show Beacon Chris the paradox that non-regulation, competition by many insurance companies, and low-premia don't lead to better insurance coverage. Do you at least concede this point about the paradox? |
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| Larry | Mar 20 2010, 09:37 PM Post #53 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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I don't think so. I've heard those numbers from several sources. As for your second point, there is a far more cost effective way of accomplishing that than by bending over and taking up the ass by the government. It's called competition. You know - that thing that happens when government gets out of the way of things. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Larry | Mar 20 2010, 09:41 PM Post #54 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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If you're a Socialist, or if you're absolutely ignorant of how the free market works, I can see how one could arrive at such a silly viewpoint. It is wrong, just the same. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| ivorythumper | Mar 20 2010, 09:43 PM Post #55 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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You state that healthcare insurance *should* act in a certain way, but do not offer any reason for that. If you want to make some sort of collectivistic argument for why healthcare insurance should act thus, do so. There is no objective reason that the system should act in any particular way, although I understand what your preference would be. There is also no objective reason that healthcare insurance should not be speculative. The question of "over priced premium" is a simple correction of market forces -- people will generally go to where they get the best product for the best price. Furthermore, are you suggesting that all private healthcare initiatives be declared illegal or shut down because they speculate? In effect, the end result of your claim is that even private healthcare insurance for the wealthy who are also contributing through taxation to the public healthcare would be shut down since it can only be speculative based on actuarial data. On what grounds would you prevent a particular kind of business that is mutually acceptable to both provider and client? There is, however, an objective reason that companies cannot underpay their legal, fiduciary, moral and ethical obligations just to claim profit : that is unjust. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| 1hp | Mar 21 2010, 09:37 AM Post #56 |
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Fulla-Carp
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The only time regulation works is when a machine is used to tirelessly, and unwaveringly apply it. Governments just screw it up. De-regulation has the same problem - S&L's are a prime example of the government screwing it up again. The government need step back and let the free market do it's job. The financial industry already has tons of regulation yet here we stand again after a year of economical mess, and after more government screw ups. De-regulation of the airline industry brought about cheaper air travel and an era where more persons than ever flew.
I believe that this is the basis of insurance - health or other. A group of persons pool their money because statistically one of them is going to need more than they can afford to pay for some catastrophe, and it is not possible to determine absolutely which individual that is. So everyone hedges their bet by pooling their money. |
| There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................ | |
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| George K | Aug 19 2010, 01:47 PM Post #57 |
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Finally
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This better? "Don't talk about costs" Key White House allies are dramatically shifting their attempts to defend health care legislation, abandoning claims that it will reduce costs and deficit, and instead stressing a promise to "improve it." The messaging shift was circulated this afternoon on a conference call and Powerpoint presentation organized by FamiliesUSA -- one of the central groups in the push for the initial legislation. The call was led by a staffer for the Herndon Alliance, which includes leading labor groups and other health care allies. It was based on polling from three top Democratic pollsters, John Anzalone, Celinda Lake, and Stan Greenberg The confidential presentation, available in full here and provided to POLITICO by a source on the call, suggests that Democrats are acknowledging the failure of their predictions that the health care legislation would grow more popular after its passage, as its benefits became clear and rhetoric cooled. Instead, the presentation is designed to win over a skeptical public, and to defend the legislation -- and in particular the individual mandate -- from a push for repeal. The presentation concedes that groups typically supportive of Democratic causes -- people under 40, non-college educated women, and Hispanic voters -- have not been won over by the plan. Indeed, it stresses repeatedly, many are unaware that the legislation has passed, an astonishing shortcoming in the White House's all-out communications effort. "Straightforward ‘policy’ defenses fail to [move] voters’ opinions about the law," says one slide. "Women in particular are concerned that health care law will mean less provider availbality – scarcity an issue." The presentation also concedes that the fiscal and economic arguments that were the White House's first and most aggressive sales pitch have essentially failed. "Many don’t believe health care reform will help the economy," says one slide. The presentation's final page of "Don'ts" counsels against claiming "the law will reduce costs and deficit." The presentation advises, instead, sales pitches that play on personal narratives and promises to change the legislation. "People can be moved from initial skepticism and support for repeal of the law to favorable feelings and resisting repeal," it says. "Use personal stories – coupled with clear, simple descriptions of how the law benefits people at the individual level – to convey critical benefits of reform." The presentation also counsels against the kind of grand claims of change that accompanied the legislation's passage. "Keep claims small and credible; don’t overpromise or ‘spin’ what the law delivers," it says, suggesting supporters say, "The law is not perfect, but it does good things and helps many people. Now we’ll work ot improve it.” ![]() |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| KlavierBauer | Aug 19 2010, 01:59 PM Post #58 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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It's amazing to me how much healthy people have to say about healthcare in general, yet how unwilling they are to take charge of their own care when inevitably faced with crisis. Lots of opinion, very little experience or understanding. |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| Copper | Aug 19 2010, 02:22 PM Post #59 |
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Shortstop
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Be on your guard, you can be "moved". |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Jolly | Aug 19 2010, 02:30 PM Post #60 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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With the exception of a few bought and paid for useful idiots, NOBODY in the world of medicine thought Obamacare would reduce costs. It's nice to know the White House finally agrees with the majority. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 19 2010, 02:53 PM Post #61 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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They should try that more often. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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4:34 PM Jul 10