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"Do Not Allow Yourself to Get Into a Discussion of the Details"
Topic Started: Mar 19 2010, 10:03 AM (943 Views)
George K
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Finally
Axtremus
Mar 20 2010, 08:52 PM
Do you know of any Texas law that bars private insurance companies from selling healthcare insurance policies to illegal undocumented immigrants, or any state regulations that bars illegal undocumented immigrants from buying healthcare insurance? :blink:
No, I don't. Do you?
Quote:
 
So we have an estimate that 22% of citizens in Texas are uninsured.
Compare that to, say, 3%~5% uninsured in Massachusetts (that includes citizens and non-citizens), or about 11% uninsured in the US, Texas still sucks when it comes to extending health insurance coverage to its residents, citizens and non-citizens alike.

So, how's that Romneycare Massachusettes Massachusetts thing working out for you guys?

I mean, financially and all. Is Massachusetts saving money? Have any of the measures that account for the United States being rated so low in healthcare improved there? You know, life expectancy, infant mortality, satisfaction...things like that.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Mar 20 2010, 09:05 PM
Axtremus
Mar 20 2010, 08:52 PM
Do you know of any Texas law that bars private insurance companies from selling healthcare insurance policies to illegal undocumented immigrants, or any state regulations that bars illegal undocumented immigrants from buying healthcare insurance? :blink:
No, I don't. Do you?
Quote:
 
So we have an estimate that 22% of citizens in Texas are uninsured.
Compare that to, say, 3%~5% uninsured in Massachusetts (that includes citizens and non-citizens), or about 11% uninsured in the US, Texas still sucks when it comes to extending health insurance coverage to its residents, citizens and non-citizens alike.

So, how's that Romneycare Massachusettes Massachusetts thing working out for you guys?

I mean, financially and all. Is Massachusetts saving money? Have any of the measures that account for the United States being rated so low in healthcare improved there? You know, life expectancy, infant mortality, satisfaction...things like that.
Feel free to compare between Massachusetts and Texas:

Life expectancies by states

Infant mortalities by states

But don't change the subject so quickly though ... I wrote all that stuff to show Beacon Chris the paradox that non-regulation, competition by many insurance companies, and low-premia don't lead to better insurance coverage.

Do you at least concede this point about the paradox?
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
Because you have your numbers wrong.



I don't think so. I've heard those numbers from several sources.

As for your second point, there is a far more cost effective way of accomplishing that than by bending over and taking up the ass by the government. It's called competition.

You know - that thing that happens when government gets out of the way of things.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
Healthcare insurance should be about risk-sharing by all in the risk pool, not about individual companies assuming risk.



If you're a Socialist, or if you're absolutely ignorant of how the free market works, I can see how one could arrive at such a silly viewpoint. It is wrong, just the same.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Axtremus
Mar 20 2010, 08:07 PM
Axtremus
Mar 20 2010, 09:55 AM
ivorythumper
Mar 20 2010, 09:50 AM
Axtremus
Mar 20 2010, 09:40 AM
Not at all. I do mean "healthcare" when I write "healthcare," and I do mean "healthcare insurance" when I write "healthcare insurance."
So you have no problem with healthcare insurance companies making a profit? Or should companies be made to assume risk without the reward of true profit? If so, would that be limited to healthcare insurance, or should auto, home, life and professional liability insurance companies also have to assume risk without the reward of true profit?
Response needs to be longer than I want to type on an iPod touch. Will response in the evening after I get to a proper computer. Please bump this if I forget. Thx.
Healthcare insurance should be about risk-sharing by all in the risk pool, not about individual companies assuming risk. An organization may exist to administer the risk pool (and earn fair market return for its labor managing the risk pool), but not to "profit" from excess pricing of risk premium or under-payment of just claims. In that sense, the healthcare insurance companies should only earn its keep as "manager" administering risk pools, not as "speculator" speculating to over-price premium and underpay just claims to profit from the spread.
You state that healthcare insurance *should* act in a certain way, but do not offer any reason for that. If you want to make some sort of collectivistic argument for why healthcare insurance should act thus, do so. There is no objective reason that the system should act in any particular way, although I understand what your preference would be.

There is also no objective reason that healthcare insurance should not be speculative. The question of "over priced premium" is a simple correction of market forces -- people will generally go to where they get the best product for the best price.

Furthermore, are you suggesting that all private healthcare initiatives be declared illegal or shut down because they speculate? In effect, the end result of your claim is that even private healthcare insurance for the wealthy who are also contributing through taxation to the public healthcare would be shut down since it can only be speculative based on actuarial data. On what grounds would you prevent a particular kind of business that is mutually acceptable to both provider and client?

There is, however, an objective reason that companies cannot underpay their legal, fiduciary, moral and ethical obligations just to claim profit : that is unjust.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

Quote:
 
Regulation works. What doesn't work is allowing people to take leveraged risks with the government on the hook if the risks go wrong. If the Republicans would just stop getting in the frickin' way of appropriate regulation


The only time regulation works is when a machine is used to tirelessly, and unwaveringly apply it. Governments just screw it up. De-regulation has the same problem - S&L's are a prime example of the government screwing it up again. The government need step back and let the free market do it's job. The financial industry already has tons of regulation yet here we stand again after a year of economical mess, and after more government screw ups. De-regulation of the airline industry brought about cheaper air travel and an era where more persons than ever flew.

Quote:
 
Healthcare insurance should be about risk-sharing by all in the risk pool


I believe that this is the basis of insurance - health or other. A group of persons pool their money because statistically one of them is going to need more than they can afford to pay for some catastrophe, and it is not possible to determine absolutely which individual that is. So everyone hedges their bet by pooling their money.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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George K
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Finally
Axtremus
Mar 19 2010, 02:50 PM
George K
Mar 19 2010, 02:04 PM
Democrats say it's a fake.


C'mon, George, the opening post spans one or two screens' worth of space spouting a hoax, at least make the proclamation that it's a hoax more prominently that just a one line tiny little post. Fair? :D
This better?

"Don't talk about costs"

Key White House allies are dramatically shifting their attempts to defend health care legislation, abandoning claims that it will reduce costs and deficit, and instead stressing a promise to "improve it."

The messaging shift was circulated this afternoon on a conference call and Powerpoint presentation organized by FamiliesUSA -- one of the central groups in the push for the initial legislation. The call was led by a staffer for the Herndon Alliance, which includes leading labor groups and other health care allies. It was based on polling from three top Democratic pollsters, John Anzalone, Celinda Lake, and Stan Greenberg

The confidential presentation, available in full here and provided to POLITICO by a source on the call, suggests that Democrats are acknowledging the failure of their predictions that the health care legislation would grow more popular after its passage, as its benefits became clear and rhetoric cooled. Instead, the presentation is designed to win over a skeptical public, and to defend the legislation -- and in particular the individual mandate -- from a push for repeal.

The presentation concedes that groups typically supportive of Democratic causes -- people under 40, non-college educated women, and Hispanic voters -- have not been won over by the plan. Indeed, it stresses repeatedly, many are unaware that the legislation has passed, an astonishing shortcoming in the White House's all-out communications effort.

"Straightforward ‘policy’ defenses fail to [move] voters’ opinions about the law," says one slide. "Women in particular are concerned that health care law will mean less provider availbality – scarcity an issue."

The presentation also concedes that the fiscal and economic arguments that were the White House's first and most aggressive sales pitch have essentially failed.

"Many don’t believe health care reform will help the economy," says one slide.

The presentation's final page of "Don'ts" counsels against claiming "the law will reduce costs and deficit."

The presentation advises, instead, sales pitches that play on personal narratives and promises to change the legislation.

"People can be moved from initial skepticism and support for repeal of the law to favorable feelings and resisting repeal," it says. "Use personal stories – coupled with clear, simple descriptions of how the law benefits people at the individual level – to convey critical benefits of reform."

The presentation also counsels against the kind of grand claims of change that accompanied the legislation's passage.

"Keep claims small and credible; don’t overpromise or ‘spin’ what the law delivers," it says, suggesting supporters say, "The law is not perfect, but it does good things and helps many people. Now we’ll work ot improve it.”

Posted Image
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
It's amazing to me how much healthy people have to say about healthcare in general, yet how unwilling they are to take charge of their own care when inevitably faced with crisis.
Lots of opinion, very little experience or understanding.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Copper
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Shortstop

Quote:
 
"People can be moved from initial skepticism and support for repeal of the law to favorable feelings and resisting repeal," it says. "Use personal stories — coupled with clear, simple descriptions of how the law benefits people at the individual level — to convey critical benefits of reform."



Be on your guard, you can be "moved".

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
With the exception of a few bought and paid for useful idiots, NOBODY in the world of medicine thought Obamacare would reduce costs.

It's nice to know the White House finally agrees with the majority.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
They should try that more often.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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