Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
A Question for the Doctor (George)
Topic Started: Mar 15 2010, 10:29 AM (260 Views)
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
I have a sick child at home today. The doctor believes it's a virus. I just took her temperature with a thermometer. And then, as is my practice, I cleaned said thermometer with alcohol. Because alcohol kills germs, or so I've always been told.

My question is this ... why don't doctors use alcohol to wash their hands before an operation? Is there a downside? Is it a question of cost? Is it just that washing with soap and water is the way that we've always done it?

Inquiring minds would like to know.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Luke's Dad
Member Avatar
Emperor Pengin
I would think long term continual use of alcohol on the hands would be bad for the skin.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Qaanaaq-Liaaq
Member Avatar
Senior Carp
Alcohol is a skin irritant. Wash your hands with alcohol too many times and skin rashes will develop.

Not to be presumptuous and answer questions not asked of me and especially so since I’m not a physician.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
QuirtEvans
Mar 15 2010, 10:29 AM
My question is this ... why don't doctors use alcohol to wash their hands before an operation? Is there a downside? Is it a question of cost? Is it just that washing with soap and water is the way that we've always done it?

Inquiring minds would like to know.
Many are moving away from soap and water. The soaps are usually bactericidal. There's a new product that many of our guys are using called Avagard.

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/au/en005/healthcare/medical/node_FXKMSPXF1Tbe/root_D58K9TX3VWgv/vroot_RB2X68D0SCge/gvel_Q8CR53DNDLgl/theme_au_medical_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html

It's fast and easy (you just put a bit in your palm, clean your nails, and wipe all over).

THe big thing is to remove any grime/dirt that's hidden, so the ritual of scrubbing is still ingrained with a lot of old farts senior surgeons.

I'm about to do a gallbladder with a friend - I'll ask him what his thinking is.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OperaTenor
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
George K
Mar 15 2010, 10:49 AM
I'm about to do a gallbladder with a friend -
Is that what they're calling it these days?
Edited by OperaTenor, Mar 15 2010, 10:52 AM.


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
George K
Mar 15 2010, 10:49 AM
QuirtEvans
Mar 15 2010, 10:29 AM
My question is this ... why don't doctors use alcohol to wash their hands before an operation? Is there a downside? Is it a question of cost? Is it just that washing with soap and water is the way that we've always done it?

Inquiring minds would like to know.
Many are moving away from soap and water. The soaps are usually bactericidal. There's a new product that many of our guys are using called Avagard.

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/au/en005/healthcare/medical/node_FXKMSPXF1Tbe/root_D58K9TX3VWgv/vroot_RB2X68D0SCge/gvel_Q8CR53DNDLgl/theme_au_medical_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html

It's fast and easy (you just put a bit in your palm, clean your nails, and wipe all over).

THe big thing is to remove any grime/dirt that's hidden, so the ritual of scrubbing is still ingrained with a lot of old farts senior surgeons.

I'm about to do a gallbladder with a friend - I'll ask him what his thinking is.
Thanks, George!

It appears to be sold on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LTRWI8/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000L8LH4E&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1FFDKJ9YE4451BQS3GBK

And also with a moisturizer.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CP8158/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000L8LH4E&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0Q1E82WRVEXQWYHGHX0C
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sue
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
I bought some chlorhexidine cleanser to use on my cat's latest wound in the hopes that it won't get infected and cause an abscess and cost us hundreds of dollars to deal with. again.

cheap as borscht, but smells like vomit. don't think I'd really want to use it on myself, but it's good enough for a silly cat.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
OK. Thanks for waiting.

First of all: Philosophy. It used to be thought that the longer you scrubbed, the cleaner your hands would be. We used to do it by the clock, and to count strokes. Break each finger into four quadrants, five scrubs per quadrant. Back of hand, 25 scrubs, palm, 25 scrubs, etc, all the way up to the elbows.

Turns out that such vigorous scrubbing didn't do much good. Yeah you killed the bacteria on the surface, but such a vigorous scrub tended to bring deeper seated bugs to the surface by opening micro-cracks in the skin. You were, ironically, probably making your hands less clean. Who'da thunk it?

So, we've gotten away from that to the "sanitizers." They do not sterilize, they "sanitize." That means that there are still some bugs on your hands, but much less than before, and when you wear gloves, you're less likely to impose a large bacterial "load" on the patient. At least, one that he can handle on his own.

Some people are concerned about the chlorhexidine, and we're moving away from that to other things (primarily alcohol) that are effective. Of course, alcohol dries the skin, and so moisturizers are added. But, you don't use it for a long time (a few minutes, at most), and your natural sweat (when wearing tight fitting gloves) will help prevent dryness to some extent.

I hated (and still do) scrubbing, and I'm grateful that I don't have to. Haven't done it in over a quarter of a century.

Also, I'm not sure if the stuff you buy at Amazon has the same ingredients as we have hanging on the walls by the scrub sinks.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
George K
Mar 15 2010, 02:51 PM
I'm not sure if the stuff you buy at Amazon has the same ingredients as we have hanging on the walls by the scrub sinks.
The one nurse who posted in the comments section seems to think so, but that's a good point.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
QuirtEvans
Mar 15 2010, 03:21 PM
George K
Mar 15 2010, 02:51 PM
I'm not sure if the stuff you buy at Amazon has the same ingredients as we have hanging on the walls by the scrub sinks.
The one nurse who posted in the comments section seems to think so, but that's a good point.
I'm lazy and tired. For some reason, I woke at 3 today, and didn't have to be at work until 6.

So, I didn't read the comments.

The bright side? Mr. Grant and Mr. W Castle have a meeting tonight.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply