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| Glenn Beck Takes on the Church | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 14 2010, 05:31 AM (304 Views) | |
| QuirtEvans | Mar 14 2010, 05:31 AM Post #1 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/03/12/beck.boycott/index.html?hpt=C1 |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| CTPianotech | Mar 14 2010, 05:48 AM Post #2 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I read through the article, but didn't see any actual quotes from Beck. I don't listen to his program, but perhaps Glenn feels as though I do... That the church, should be focusing on what it and its members can do for the poor, sick, etc, rather than focus on what government policy should be. |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 14 2010, 05:51 AM Post #3 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Yeah, social policy issues like abortion. I'm sure that's what you meant. I don't recall anyone on the left with a microphone and a huge audience telling his listeners to leave their church over its abortion stand, but perhaps there are examples. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 14 2010, 05:54 AM Post #4 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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By the way, here's what he has been reported as saying:
http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org/wordpress/2010/03/13/on-glenn-beck-social-justice-economic-justice-communists-nazis-and-churches.html |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| CTPianotech | Mar 14 2010, 06:14 AM Post #5 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Correct. I am happy to listen to my pastor preach about what we can/should do to help prevent abortions. (volunteer at a home that provides care for young, expecting single mothers, teaching my own family how to avoid situations where abortion would be a tempting option, etc) I would not be happy to hear him use the pulpit to tell me to call my congressman, and urge him to support the "XYZ Abortion Restriction Act" I'll do that on my own.
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| CTPianotech | Mar 14 2010, 06:20 AM Post #6 |
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Fulla-Carp
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If the quote you provided from Beck is correct, and in context, I would have to say I disagree with him on this issue. My preference is to work from within the church to make changes, or at least provide a voice for the 'other side' My own church (ELCA, just like |
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| John D'Oh | Mar 14 2010, 06:24 AM Post #7 |
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MAMIL
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Is there anything Glenn Beck isn't an expert on? The guy is so overqualified he could almost post here. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| JBryan | Mar 14 2010, 08:08 AM Post #8 |
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I am the grey one
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Economic jusice and social justice are classic shiboleths. No one really agrees what they mean but the mere utterance of these terms is like a badge of identification. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Piano*Dad | Mar 14 2010, 08:12 AM Post #9 |
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Bull-Carp
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Yeah, you'll make lots of friends that way! Oooops. Too late.
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| John D'Oh | Mar 14 2010, 08:34 AM Post #10 |
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MAMIL
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The same thing applies to the term 'political commentator'. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| ivorythumper | Mar 14 2010, 08:38 AM Post #11 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Social Justice has been co-opted as a leftist shibboleth, but it is very much at the heart of the Catholic teaching on social policy, and in fact the term itself was first used in the 1840s by a Italian priest who was writing to instruct rural folks who were moving into the cities for work during the Industrial Revolution and urbanization in Italy. There is a real sense to the term, namely that society should be justly ordered so that each person has the economic and political freedom to adequately support himself and his family, and grow in moral and civic virtues. This means that the operation of the free market must be tempered by moral considerations that respect human dignity. From Rerum Novarum (1891) Let the working man and the employer make free agreements, and in particular let them agree freely as to the wages; nevertheless, there underlies a dictate of natural justice more imperious and ancient than any bargain between man and man, namely, that wages ought not to be insufficient to support a frugal and well-behaved wage-earner. If through necessity or fear of a worse evil the workman accept harder conditions because an employer or contractor will afford him no better, he is made the victim of force and injustice. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| JoeB | Mar 14 2010, 09:03 AM Post #12 |
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Senior Carp
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The really wonderful thing about Glenn is he is totally unqualified to do anything (except maybe DJ work) and is STILL getting stinking rich stirring people up. |
| "There are many ingredients in the stew of annoyance." - Bucky Katt | |
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| Mark | Mar 14 2010, 09:04 AM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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So he was arguing for minimum wage IT? Ugh. Edited by Mark, Mar 14 2010, 09:05 AM.
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| Larry | Mar 14 2010, 12:04 PM Post #14 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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How sad. The man hits the nails dead on the head, and our society has gotten so lost it can't even recognize the truth any more. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Dewey | Mar 14 2010, 12:15 PM Post #15 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Oddly enough, I was driving to Pennsylvania Friday morning and heard most of Beck's show, as he was discussing this. This is a touchy issue. He's definitely correct that the terms "social justice," "economic justice," or even just "justice" or "liberation" have been co-opted by the left to specifically mean government-led programs to lead to more just conditions. And many in the church have used these terms as codewords to simply mean liberal politics. Social justice - and all those other terms - are, in fact, entirely biblical, scriptural principles, that all of God's people are called to live out, both individually and corporately as a community. And this communal aspect holds whether one is talking about a community of faith, or a national community. The problem comes in when a church limits the definition of working for social justice to be only the liberal way. The real situation isn't that liberals support social justice and conservatives don't. The situation is that liberals and conservatives simply believe that different paths to the end goal are better, or more effective, to achieving that justice. When the church recognizes that, and encourages its members to be informed, and engaged, and to work for justice individually and corporately, and sticking to defining what social justice really looks like, then they're doing their job. When they use it as a tool to push a solely liberal political ideology, they're making a big mistake. Just as bad, their mistaken actions then cause more conservative churches to pooh-pooh any conversation about working for social justice, because they see it as liberal codespeak, which it really isn't - and the conservative churches end up missing out on an important part of their discipleship expectations. So Beck is right about that point. And he is correct when he decries "enforced charity" through governmental taxation. But he also misses a bit, too, because he seems to rule out any government role in working for social justice. Based on what I heard him say on Friday, he seemed to define working for social justice strictly in terms of making financial donations to charities - which is good, but isn't the full story. Real social justice is more than that, and it often involves changing social structures which inherently create unjust conditions - and that usually requires government involvement. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| kathyk | Mar 14 2010, 12:18 PM Post #16 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Never in my life has a pastor in any church I've been involved in urged anyone to vote on a matter or for an individual one way or another. I'm surprised this happened in your church. OTH, there are plenty of calls for social justice in messages gleaned directly from the Bible with regard to helping the poor and down and out, and the church, as you know, has lots of worldwide missions (Lutheran World Relief is huge) and stateside ones (Luthean Social Services is one of the biggest social services agencies in the country). Edited by kathyk, Mar 14 2010, 12:18 PM.
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| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| John D'Oh | Mar 14 2010, 02:01 PM Post #17 |
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MAMIL
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Two Mencken quotes spring to mind: "No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." and "Of all the classes of men, I dislike most those who make their livings by talking — actors, clergymen, politicians, pedagogues, and so on. All of them participate in the shallow false pretenses of the actor who is their archetype. It is almost impossible to imagine a talker who sticks to the facts. Carried away by the sound of his own voice and the applause of the groundlings, he makes inevitably the jump from logic to mere rhetoric." |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| ivorythumper | Mar 14 2010, 02:20 PM Post #18 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Not minimum wage, but a fair and living wage: enough for a prudent man to raise his family and earn some wealth. "If a worker receives a wage sufficiently large to enable him to provide comfortably for himself, his wife and his children, he will, if prudent, gladly strive to practice thrift; and the result will be, as nature itself seems to counsel, that after expenditures are deducted there will remain something over and above through which he can come into the possession of a little wealth. We have seen, in fact, that the whole question under consideration cannot be settled effectually unless it is assumed and established as a principle, that the right of private property must be regarded as sacred. Wherefore, the law ought to favor this right and, so far as it can, see that the largest possible number among the masses of the population prefer to own property." Why the "Ugh" ??? The document is addressed to society at large, and is meant to instruct also "Wealthy owners of the means of production" in how to do business justly. It is not instructing the government to set wages. Do you think that business owners are morally entitled to abuse their employees and keep them in poverty just because those employees have no power to object? Pius XI in Quadregismo Anno (1931) also wrote: "...the wealthy class violates (the common good) no less, when, as if free from care on account of its wealth, it thinks it the right order of things for it to get everything and the worker nothing, than does the...working class when, angered deeply at outraged justice and too ready to assert wrongly the one right it is conscious of, it demands for itself everything as if produced by its own hands, and attacks and seeks to abolish, therefore, all property and returns or incomes, of whatever kind they are or whatever the function they perform in human society, that have not been obtained by labor, and for no other reason save that they are of such a nature." |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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