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| Pope Benedict protected child molester | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 13 2010, 01:42 AM (4,477 Views) | |
| Mikhailoh | Mar 15 2010, 08:25 AM Post #176 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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You are most welcome. You may bow to my impeccable reasoning at your convenience.
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Axtremus | Mar 15 2010, 08:33 AM Post #177 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Thank you for being gracious. Perhaps I can ask a follow-up question: In a hypothetical jurisdiction where its civilian authority have demonstrated that it is more successful than the Catholic Church at dealing with those who have molested children, and where this jurisdiction's local laws also stipulate that all child molestation incidents must be reported to the civil authorities, suppose a Catholic priest hears some one confessing to having sexually molested a minor, do you think said priest should alert the civil authorities? |
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| Mikhailoh | Mar 15 2010, 08:41 AM Post #178 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Again, you are most welcome. No, I don't. Because I also believe that, just as I am not particularly religious but acknowledge and have experienced the power of prayer, there is a lot of value in the rite of confession. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| CHAS | Mar 15 2010, 08:46 AM Post #179 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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http://gay.americablog.com/2009/10/maines-catholic-church-donations-to.html That is just on campaign in one state. The RC chuch does this in every state to oppose gay rights $550,000 to oppose gay rights. Should have paid it to the victims of the child molesting priest. It would not be fornication if gays could marry. Edited by CHAS, Mar 15 2010, 08:48 AM.
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| "You want to be Nice, or you want to be Effective? Make the law or be subject to it?"-Roy Cohn | |
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| Mikhailoh | Mar 15 2010, 08:49 AM Post #180 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Be sure to let them know when your gay rights organizations start paying reparations to the children molested by gay pedophiles. Until that time you haven't much of a leg to stand on. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Renauda | Mar 15 2010, 08:50 AM Post #181 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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If said priest is a licensed school teacher in Alberta, he must report the alleged abuse to the Child Welfare authorities for investigation. Failure to do so could result in criminal charges against the priest in violation of the Child Welfare Act and, at the discretion of the Minister of Education, either temporary or permanent revocation of his teaching license. |
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| Axtremus | Mar 15 2010, 08:51 AM Post #182 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Oh ... first I thought you're being pragmatic and want to let the institution that is more successful at handling child molesters handle them. But now it seems like you merely like to protect the rite of confession. Pragmatism in dealing with child molesters does not seem to be a factor at all. Thank you for clarifying. |
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| Mikhailoh | Mar 15 2010, 08:53 AM Post #183 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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That fact that it is not the only factor does not mean it is not a factor. In the first question, you asked about the reality we live in today. In the second you asked a question regarding a hypothetical situation that is not reality as we live it. Why don't you ask 'if there were a sure cure for pedophiles would you want them turned in' or 'what if it were shown that being molested was not harmful to children'. The answers to those would be as relevant as the second question you asked. Edited by Mikhailoh, Mar 15 2010, 08:56 AM.
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| CHAS | Mar 15 2010, 08:54 AM Post #184 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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There are many more male molesters of little girls. When is that GROUP going to pay reparations.? |
| "You want to be Nice, or you want to be Effective? Make the law or be subject to it?"-Roy Cohn | |
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| Renauda | Mar 15 2010, 08:59 AM Post #185 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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No, gays can marry- they just can't can receive the sacrament of matrimony. Marriage and matrimony are two different things. |
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| Mikhailoh | Mar 15 2010, 09:00 AM Post #186 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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What group is that? I don't know of any groups that these folks might be a member of. Maybe it's 'RFTROUWDHATWA'*. *Rights For The Rest Of Us Who Don't Have Anything To Whine About |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Copper | Mar 15 2010, 09:07 AM Post #187 |
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Shortstop
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That's an entirely different group. Come on, when are you and your gay friends going to start paying your bills? It's a fair question. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Axtremus | Mar 15 2010, 09:15 AM Post #188 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Perhaps you can tell me whether there is a level of success that a civilian authority can achieve, whether in absolute or relative to same that the Catholic Church can achieve, that will make you change your mind to think that Catholic priests should report child molestation incidents that they learn from confessions to the civilian authorities? Otherwise, success of the civilian authority to handle child molesters does not seem to be a factor that will influence whether your think a Catholic priest should report child molestation incidents to the civil authority should he learn of such an incident through a confession. More follow-up questions given what you've written: To the extent that you believe there to be value in the rite of confession, do you wish to protect the secrecy of confession only when it is done to Catholic priests, or would you extend that protection to other persons of religious authorities (e.g., other non-Catholic Christian pastors, Jewish rabbis, Buddhist monks, Native American shamans, etc.), or even other persons of civilian authorities (e.g., Justices of the Peace, school teachers, your local selectman, etc.)? Where do you draw the boundary for where "the value of the rite of confession" trumps the civilian laws that compel the reporting of child molestation incidents to the civil authorities? Are you going to say, then, that where the civilian authorities are successful at handling child molesters that every one, except the Catholic priests, should report child molestation incidents to the civilian authorities? Are you going to say that where the civilian authorities are not successful at handling child molesters that, more people, including Catholic priests plus some groups or classes of people meeting some set of qualifications, should be allowed to keep child molestation incidents secret from civilian authorities? |
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| Renauda | Mar 15 2010, 09:19 AM Post #189 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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No its not. In fact it's beyond the pale insinuating that Chas is personally responsible for molesting children. I hope you are man enough to retract that with an apology. |
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| Dewey | Mar 15 2010, 09:23 AM Post #190 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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As I mentioned earlier, at lest here, privileged conversation, at least for clergy, is not without qualifications. I must report any instances of child abuse observed or confessed to me, and if I have reason to believe that someone is about to harm another person, I have to report that as well. To be honest, since people are often unclear regarding these legalities, I've been taught that if I feel that a parishioner is veering into a topic that would trigger mandatory reporting to civil authorities, I'm to stop the person and explain my legal obligations to the state, and what can, and cannot, remain confidential - and let them decide if they want to proceed. There is tremendous value in confession. But there is far less value in confessing that you've done a terrible thing to one person, and to God, but not in accepting responsibility for your actions. You may very well be forgiven by God for your actions, but there is a difference between confession and repentance - and to me, true repentance includes accepting whatever civil consequences there may be. Short of that, the confession is pretty much meaningless. I would almost go so far as to say that confessing to one person, who is then expected to keep it a secret, isn't really confessing at all - it does little for a person's spiritual health to keep a secret misdeed hidden, and frankly, unpunished. In essence, what the person seeking to receive absolution without accepting civil consequence is looking for isn't so much a confessor as a co-conspirator who can provide a cheap fix to the guilt he's feeling. Click |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Copper | Mar 15 2010, 09:27 AM Post #191 |
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Shortstop
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It is absolutely fair in that it has exactly the same insinuations as jon, chas, ax and others have made about the catholics here. It is fair. It may not be pleasant, but that is something to take up with chas and his friends. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 15 2010, 09:32 AM Post #192 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Let's be fair, Ren. His refusal to apologize doesn't prove that he's not man enough. It only proves that he's not smart enough to see the difference between what he said and what Chas said ... or not honest enough to be willing to admit that there is a substantial difference. He's not man enough either, but I'm afraid you'll have to look for other evidence of that. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Copper | Mar 15 2010, 09:36 AM Post #193 |
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Shortstop
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Maybe you can help me see the difference. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| jon-nyc | Mar 15 2010, 09:38 AM Post #194 |
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Cheers
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You think he carries a magnifying glass? |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Copper | Mar 15 2010, 09:39 AM Post #195 |
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Shortstop
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I guess that is what it might take. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Renauda | Mar 15 2010, 09:44 AM Post #196 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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They have been attacking an institution and its policies. They have not been attacking individual TNCR members for belonging to that institution. |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 15 2010, 09:47 AM Post #197 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Look at Renauda's post, prior to this one. He explains it quite clearly. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Copper | Mar 15 2010, 09:48 AM Post #198 |
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Shortstop
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I did not attack a TNCR member. And you should apologize for implying that I did. Then you should apologize to qe and jon for getting them all stirred up about it. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 15 2010, 09:50 AM Post #199 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Wrong again.
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| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Copper | Mar 15 2010, 09:51 AM Post #200 |
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Shortstop
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A simple question. A simple answer would do nicely. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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