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Pope Benedict protected child molester
Topic Started: Mar 13 2010, 01:42 AM (4,479 Views)
Phlebas
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Bull-Carp
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 02:28 PM
Phlebas
Mar 14 2010, 02:22 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 02:09 PM
CHAS
Mar 14 2010, 01:49 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 09:16 AM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 06:11 AM
apple
Mar 14 2010, 05:49 AM
the Vatican will never implode.

Agreed, they'll keep reinforcing the bunker as the congregation shrinks.
Really? The Catholic Church is growing in numbers around the world.
So are hamsters
Do you think that is a good thing for gays?
...and you wonder why people think you're a pompous jerk.
You might think that, Phleeb, but I really don't care what you think since the only commerce we usually have is you attacking me.

But when Chas throws an easy pitch like that in a snarky response to a point I was making, you can't blame me for swinging.
It's not just what I think. It's what a lot of people think. Don't believe me. I don't care.

We don't have a lot of "commerce" because I've always avoided people on a high horse. I've gotten along fine in my personal and professional life without dealing with that.
Whatever, there's no reason for the hamster remark to Chas. It just shows more about your hangups.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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Copper
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Shortstop
Phlebas
Mar 14 2010, 03:11 PM

Whatever, there's no reason for the hamster remark to Chas.

The hamster remark was actually from Chas.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Lord knows, I'm not one to defend IT, and I generally think that everything you've said about him is true.

However, Chas's hamster line was a fat pitch over the center of the plate, and I'm sure you know that, among IT's other characteristics, he has no ability to keep his mouth shut ... particularly when he has concocted a clever retort.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Phlebas
Mar 14 2010, 03:11 PM
It's not just what I think. It's what a lot of people think. Don't believe me. I don't care.

We don't have a lot of "commerce" because I've always avoided people on a high horse. I've gotten along fine in my personal and professional life without dealing with that.
Whatever, there's no reason for the hamster remark to Chas. It just shows more about your hangups.
You obviously care enough to attack me with some noise about how people feel about me -- which takes sitting on a pretty high horse.

And you also are arrogant enough to assume I have hang ups for an obvious joke related to the urban legends about Richard Gere and hamsters.

So again, I really don't care what you think because even here you are coming across like an arrogant prig and attacking me in the usual pattern.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Copper
Mar 14 2010, 03:13 PM
Phlebas
Mar 14 2010, 03:11 PM

Whatever, there's no reason for the hamster remark to Chas.

The hamster remark was actually from Chas.
Brilliant analysis, Dr. Watson.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuirtEvans
Mar 14 2010, 03:15 PM
Lord knows, I'm not one to defend IT, and I generally think that everything you've said about him is true.

However, Chas's hamster line was a fat pitch over the center of the plate, and I'm sure you know that, among IT's other characteristics, he has no ability to keep his mouth shut ... particularly when he has concocted a clever retort.
As opposed to you, who conversely has no ability to keep your mouth shut even if you haven't concocted a clever retort. :lol2:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 03:07 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 03:06 PM
So in other words you have no knowledge of anything in fact about that, and only your prejudiced hypothesis about how something was handled 30 years ago?

It would have been a much shorter conversation if you had said that at the beginning of this discussion.
SOrry, the press reports are pretty clear. THe only police investigation they mention is post-82.

But then you knew that.


Really Jon, it is much more direct and truthful to simply state that you really don't know enough about this to judge whether Ratzinger was remiss in his duty, and that you are assuming that he was based on assumptions that you are making about the case.

It is so much easier to just make truthful statements about things actually known. One of those things most of us learned in kindergarten.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Everything I've said has been laid out in that article, none of which has been refuted by your church, otherwise you would certainly have provided the links.


Just face it, IT, your judgement is clouded by the brainwashing you've received from that institution. You are ideologically incapable of calling the Pope out on his moral failings.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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jon-nyc
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Funny - the banner ad is for Vatican Gifts, with a big smiling photo of the pedophile protector-in-chief.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Phlebas
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Bull-Carp
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 03:16 PM

...you are coming across like an arrogant prig and attacking me in the usual pattern.
I'm the arrogant prig. Ok.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Come on, IT. You must have spent hours combing through those websites for the dull and the faithful - can you come up with a better rebuttal than simple denial of the facts in the article?
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 04:01 PM
Everything I've said has been laid out in that article, none of which has been refuted by your church, otherwise you would certainly have provided the links.

Just face it, IT, your judgement is clouded by the brainwashing you've received from that institution. You are ideologically incapable of calling the Pope out on his moral failings.
You haven't demonstrated that he did fail morally. The onus is you to demonstrate that (and beyond a reasonable doubt if you wish to be a just man). You do not have the information to make that claim, and you admit to assumptions. What else needs to be said?

And again you are really being silly about my lack of ability to call out any Pope on his moral failings. One of the precepts of Catholicism is that we are generally sinful and fail all the time. Popes included. Furthermore it is obvious from my reading of history that popes have had mistresses, illegitimate children, practiced simony, and all sorts of bad things. No one in the Church, nor does the Church herself claim that popes are protected from moral error, and certainly not mere bishops. So for all your rhetoric about ideology and brainwashing, it is just machinations in your own head.

Conversely, I have yet to see from you a single positive statement about the good of the Church. You seize on this event to grind your ax, and all the more since it marginally involves the person who is now Pope. If it were the bishop of Timbuktu you would not have started the thread.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 03:06 PM
Copper
Mar 14 2010, 03:06 PM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 02:52 PM

Just realize how silly it looks to the rest of us.

How silly does it look to the rest of us?
I meant the ones not similarly afflicted. So you'll have to ask someone else.
I'm not a Catholic, nor do I even profess to be a Christian, and I believe IT is right.

In any event, every institution ever created by mankind is a mixed bag because we are a mixed bag. That they have failings is no reason to destroy them.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Phlebas
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Bull-Carp
Mikhailoh
Mar 14 2010, 04:30 PM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 03:06 PM
Copper
Mar 14 2010, 03:06 PM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 02:52 PM

Just realize how silly it looks to the rest of us.

How silly does it look to the rest of us?
I meant the ones not similarly afflicted. So you'll have to ask someone else.
I'm not a Catholic, nor do I even profess to be a Christian, and I believe IT is right.

In any event, every institution ever created by mankind is a mixed bag because we are a mixed bag. That they have failings is no reason to destroy them.
Most reasonable people will agree that any group or institution will have a mixed bag.
There's nothing wrong with taking a critical eye at how the individual parts of the mixed bag are handled, though.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Mikhailoh
Mar 14 2010, 04:30 PM
I'm not a Catholic, nor do I even profess to be a Christian, and I believe IT is right.
About what, specifically? He's changed his position so often I would have thought he's writing the sequel to the Kama Sutra.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 04:24 PM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 04:01 PM
Everything I've said has been laid out in that article, none of which has been refuted by your church, otherwise you would certainly have provided the links.

Just face it, IT, your judgement is clouded by the brainwashing you've received from that institution. You are ideologically incapable of calling the Pope out on his moral failings.
You haven't demonstrated that he did fail morally. The onus is you to demonstrate that (and beyond a reasonable doubt if you wish to be a just man). You do not have the information to make that claim, and you admit to assumptions. What else needs to be said?

And again you are really being silly about my lack of ability to call out any Pope on his moral failings. One of the precepts of Catholicism is that we are generally sinful and fail all the time. Popes included. Furthermore it is obvious from my reading of history that popes have had mistresses, illegitimate children, practiced simony, and all sorts of bad things. No one in the Church, nor does the Church herself claim that popes are protected from moral error, and certainly not mere bishops. So for all your rhetoric about ideology and brainwashing, it is just machinations in your own head.

Conversely, I have yet to see from you a single positive statement about the good of the Church. You seize on this event to grind your ax, and all the more since it marginally involves the person who is now Pope. If it were the bishop of Timbuktu you would not have started the thread.
Sure I demonstrated it, at least to my - and seemingly your - understanding of what it means to act morally when one comes into possession of knowledge that another man has raped an 11 year old. You're just in denial, or hoping that the facts of the the article will be refuted at some point.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Quagmire
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Senior Carp
Quote:
 

About what, specifically? He's changed his position so often I would have thought he's writing the sequel to the Kama Sutra.


:lol2: I'm stealing that!
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 04:55 PM
Sure I demonstrated it, at least to my - and seemingly your - understanding of what it means to act morally when one comes into possession of knowledge that another man has raped an 11 year old. You're just in denial, or hoping that the facts of the the article will be refuted at some point.
Jon, it is not in your interest to be a careful thinker about this. You have shown that time and again.

On the other hand, I have shown myself to be a careful thinker. Let's do this quite objectively. I will even let you edit before proceeding. Let's start with what constitutes a moral failing. I would suggest that

"A moral failing would be where a person intentionally did not do what they were morally obligated to do, or did something against or other than what they were morally obligated to do."

You edit that.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 06:37 PM
I have shown myself to be a careful thinker.
Posted Image
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
I threw that one in for you, Quirt. Like a hamster. ;)
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 06:52 PM
I threw that one in for you, Quirt. Like a hamster. ;)
Posted Image
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuirtEvans
Mar 14 2010, 06:58 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 06:52 PM
I threw that one in for you, Quirt. Like a hamster. ;)
Posted Image
Oh, I didn't realize you were into hamsters.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 06:37 PM
Let's start with what constitutes a moral failing. I would suggest that

"A moral failing would be where a person intentionally did not do what they were morally obligated to do, or did something against or other than what they were morally obligated to do."

Excellent definition. I'll give you an example of a moral failure:

Cum nimis absurdum
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apple
one of the angels
coverup not acceptable
it behooves me to behold
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 06:37 PM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 04:55 PM
Sure I demonstrated it, at least to my - and seemingly your - understanding of what it means to act morally when one comes into possession of knowledge that another man has raped an 11 year old. You're just in denial, or hoping that the facts of the the article will be refuted at some point.
Jon, it is not in your interest to be a careful thinker about this. You have shown that time and again.

On the other hand, I have shown myself to be a careful thinker. Let's do this quite objectively. I will even let you edit before proceeding. Let's start with what constitutes a moral failing. I would suggest that

"A moral failing would be where a person intentionally did not do what they were morally obligated to do, or did something against or other than what they were morally obligated to do."

You edit that.
Sorry, boy Socrates, I don't have time for this game. I'm heading to London today.


Lets just agree to disagree. I think adults, and most certainly bishops, have a moral obligation to report people who rape 11 year old boys to the authorities for arrest and prosecution. You don't, or at least not in all circumstances.

We'll just leave it at that.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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