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Pope Benedict protected child molester
Topic Started: Mar 13 2010, 01:42 AM (4,480 Views)
ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 01:34 AM
And I replied on that thread.
Without any evidence to the contrary, do you still insist that he protected a child molester, or is it more true to state that he seems to have allowed a (presumably known) child molester into his diocese for the purpose of therapy?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 06:11 AM
apple
Mar 14 2010, 05:49 AM
the Vatican will never implode.

Agreed, they'll keep reinforcing the bunker as the congregation shrinks.
Really? The Catholic Church is growing in numbers around the world.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 09:13 AM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 01:34 AM
And I replied on that thread.
Without any evidence to the contrary, do you still insist that he protected a child molester, or is it more true to state that he seems to have allowed a (presumably known) child molester into his diocese for the purpose of therapy?
By sending him to therapy rather than calling the authorities he protected him.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 09:16 AM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 06:11 AM
apple
Mar 14 2010, 05:49 AM
the Vatican will never implode.

Agreed, they'll keep reinforcing the bunker as the congregation shrinks.
Really? The Catholic Church is growing in numbers around the world.
:lol2: No doubt it is, now that it moved you into Real Estate and Property Management and out of Business Development and Sales.
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Copper
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Shortstop
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 09:18 AM

By sending him to therapy rather than calling the authorities he protected him.

Which authorities?
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
His old SS buddies The cops.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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OperaTenor
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Pisa-Carp
Piano*Dad
Mar 14 2010, 07:59 AM
Sorry, Quirt. Now you must go behind the woodshed and self-flagellate.
Hey! This is a public forum!

;)


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apple
one of the angels
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100314/ap_on_re_eu/eu_church_abuse
it behooves me to behold
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 09:18 AM
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 09:13 AM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 01:34 AM
And I replied on that thread.
Without any evidence to the contrary, do you still insist that he protected a child molester, or is it more true to state that he seems to have allowed a (presumably known) child molester into his diocese for the purpose of therapy?
By sending him to therapy rather than calling the authorities he protected him.
??? From the accounts he was moved after a conviction by the civil authorities in Essen to Munich into therapy. What exactly was Ratzinger supposed to inform the authorities about?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
I've not read that. His conviction wasn't until 1986 in the accounts I've read, including the timeline published in the NYT, which I linked to in this thread.

Can you provide a link?
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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CHAS
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Middle Aged Carp
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 09:16 AM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 06:11 AM
apple
Mar 14 2010, 05:49 AM
the Vatican will never implode.

Agreed, they'll keep reinforcing the bunker as the congregation shrinks.
Really? The Catholic Church is growing in numbers around the world.
So are hamsters
"You want to be Nice, or you want to be Effective? Make the law or be subject to it?"-Roy Cohn
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CHAS
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Middle Aged Carp
Mikhailoh
Mar 14 2010, 07:19 AM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 06:36 AM
Well the topic is pedophilia, you expect it to be uplifting?
The topic has never been pedophilia. It's hatred of the Catholic church.
Yep, the Roman Catholic church hates me. I hate it.

They spend a lot of time teaching homophobia and spend millions to keep homosexuals down.


o, yea, the nuns spend their time teaching anti-semitism
"You want to be Nice, or you want to be Effective? Make the law or be subject to it?"-Roy Cohn
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 01:48 PM
I've not read that. His conviction wasn't until 1986 in the accounts I've read, including the timeline published in the NYT, which I linked to in this thread.

Can you provide a link?
It was in the link you provided.
Quote:
 
In Munich case, a priest from Essen, “despite allegations of sexual abuse, and in spite of a conviction — was repeatedly assigned work in the sphere of pastoral care by the then-Vicar General Gerhard Gruber,” who worked under Benedict when he was the archbishop.


From that sentence they seem to be saying that there were allegations and some sort of conviction that were known about when H was working pastorally while Gruber and Ratzinger were at the Archdiocese. It is not the least bit evident that Ratzinger protected H or hid H from authorities or that he assigned him to pastoral care with the intent of letting him continue his criminal ways -- as you seem to claim.

If none of the events occurred while H was in Munich during Ratzinger's episcopacy, but rather H was accepted into the archdiocese for the purpose of some sort of psychiatric or psychological treatment, how does that require Ratzinger to tell the authorities anything? How does that equate to protecting a child molester?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
CHAS
Mar 14 2010, 01:49 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 09:16 AM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 06:11 AM
apple
Mar 14 2010, 05:49 AM
the Vatican will never implode.

Agreed, they'll keep reinforcing the bunker as the congregation shrinks.
Really? The Catholic Church is growing in numbers around the world.
So are hamsters
Do you think that is a good thing for gays?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
CHAS
Mar 14 2010, 01:53 PM
Mikhailoh
Mar 14 2010, 07:19 AM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 06:36 AM
Well the topic is pedophilia, you expect it to be uplifting?
The topic has never been pedophilia. It's hatred of the Catholic church.
Yep, the Roman Catholic church hates me. I hate it.

They spend a lot of time teaching homophobia and spend millions to keep homosexuals down.


o, yea, the nuns spend their time teaching anti-semitism
No Chas, the Church does not hate you. They certainly don't teach homophobia, and don't spend any money keeping homosexuals down.

But we've been through this time and again.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Phlebas
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Bull-Carp
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 02:09 PM
CHAS
Mar 14 2010, 01:49 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 09:16 AM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 06:11 AM
apple
Mar 14 2010, 05:49 AM
the Vatican will never implode.

Agreed, they'll keep reinforcing the bunker as the congregation shrinks.
Really? The Catholic Church is growing in numbers around the world.
So are hamsters
Do you think that is a good thing for gays?
...and you wonder why people think you're a pompous jerk.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Phlebas
Mar 14 2010, 02:22 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 02:09 PM
CHAS
Mar 14 2010, 01:49 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 09:16 AM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 06:11 AM
apple
Mar 14 2010, 05:49 AM
the Vatican will never implode.

Agreed, they'll keep reinforcing the bunker as the congregation shrinks.
Really? The Catholic Church is growing in numbers around the world.
So are hamsters
Do you think that is a good thing for gays?
...and you wonder why people think you're a pompous jerk.
You might think that, Phleeb, but I really don't care what you think since the only commerce we usually have is you attacking me.

But when Chas throws an easy pitch like that in a snarky response to a point I was making, you can't blame me for swinging.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 02:08 PM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 01:48 PM
I've not read that. His conviction wasn't until 1986 in the accounts I've read, including the timeline published in the NYT, which I linked to in this thread.

Can you provide a link?
It was in the link you provided.
Quote:
 
In Munich case, a priest from Essen, “despite allegations of sexual abuse, and in spite of a conviction — was repeatedly assigned work in the sphere of pastoral care by the then-Vicar General Gerhard Gruber,” who worked under Benedict when he was the archbishop.


From that sentence they seem to be saying that there were allegations and some sort of conviction that were known about when H was working pastorally while Gruber and Ratzinger were at the Archdiocese. It is not the least bit evident that Ratzinger protected H or hid H from authorities or that he assigned him to pastoral care with the intent of letting him continue his criminal ways -- as you seem to claim.

If none of the events occurred while H was in Munich during Ratzinger's episcopacy, but rather H was accepted into the archdiocese for the purpose of some sort of psychiatric or psychological treatment, how does that require Ratzinger to tell the authorities anything? How does that equate to protecting a child molester?
The conviction is clearly well after the fact - read it again. THey're describing a conviction post-therapy in Munich - not the first case with the 11 year old boy in Essen. You can also check out the handy timeline graphic they provided.


Sorry, bud. Your beloved Pope sent this guy to therapy without alerting the authorities. Something that you have described as, in general, a moral obligation.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 02:29 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 02:08 PM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 01:48 PM
I've not read that. His conviction wasn't until 1986 in the accounts I've read, including the timeline published in the NYT, which I linked to in this thread.

Can you provide a link?
It was in the link you provided.
Quote:
 
In Munich case, a priest from Essen, “despite allegations of sexual abuse, and in spite of a conviction — was repeatedly assigned work in the sphere of pastoral care by the then-Vicar General Gerhard Gruber,” who worked under Benedict when he was the archbishop.


From that sentence they seem to be saying that there were allegations and some sort of conviction that were known about when H was working pastorally while Gruber and Ratzinger were at the Archdiocese. It is not the least bit evident that Ratzinger protected H or hid H from authorities or that he assigned him to pastoral care with the intent of letting him continue his criminal ways -- as you seem to claim.

If none of the events occurred while H was in Munich during Ratzinger's episcopacy, but rather H was accepted into the archdiocese for the purpose of some sort of psychiatric or psychological treatment, how does that require Ratzinger to tell the authorities anything? How does that equate to protecting a child molester?
The conviction is clearly well after the fact - read it again. THey're describing a conviction in Munich - not the first case with the 11 year old boy in Essen. You can also check out the handy timeline graphic they provided.


Sorry, bud. Your beloved Pope sent this guy to therapy without alerting the authorities. Something that you have described as, in general, a moral obligation.

It is obvious that Ratzinger did not send the guy into therapy. You are wrong about that.

H was sent from another diocese to Munich for therapy. Ratzinger received him for therapy. Where again is it Ratzinger's moral obligation to alert the authorities when he should be able to presume that anyone consigned to therapy is being properly handled?

There is no reason to assume that Ratzinger did anything but provide for the therapeutic care of a deeply psycho-sexually wounded person. I understand that you would rather have such people prison raped, but modern qualified psychologists who deal with serial molesters don't seem to advocate that sort of therapy.

(Well, I guess there is a reason-- your bigotry is the reason to ascribe bad intentions to Ratzinger).
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 02:44 PM
Where again is it Ratzinger's moral obligation to alert the authorities when he should be able to presume that anyone consigned to therapy is being properly handled?


I think in the catholic church in 1980, the opposite assumption is much more safe - in fact virtually guaranteed. Unless by 'properly handled' you mean kpt as quiet as possible.


Again, IT. I realize your ideology requires you to grab any straw - however thin and frayed - before criticizing your beloved pope. Just realize how silly it looks to the rest of us.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Copper
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Shortstop
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 02:52 PM

Just realize how silly it looks to the rest of us.

How silly does it look to the rest of us?
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 02:52 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 02:44 PM
Where again is it Ratzinger's moral obligation to alert the authorities when he should be able to presume that anyone consigned to therapy is being properly handled?


I think in the catholic church in 1980, the opposite assumption is much more safe - in fact virtually guaranteed. Unless by 'properly handled' you mean kpt as quiet as possible.


Again, IT. I realize your ideology requires you to grab any straw - however thin and frayed - before criticizing your beloved pope. Just realize how silly it looks to the rest of us.
So in other words you have no knowledge of anything in fact about that, and only your prejudiced hypothesis about how something was handled 30 years ago?

It would have been a much shorter conversation if you had said that at the beginning of this discussion.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Copper
Mar 14 2010, 03:06 PM
jon-nyc
Mar 14 2010, 02:52 PM

Just realize how silly it looks to the rest of us.

How silly does it look to the rest of us?
I meant the ones not similarly afflicted. So you'll have to ask someone else.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
ivorythumper
Mar 14 2010, 03:06 PM
So in other words you have no knowledge of anything in fact about that, and only your prejudiced hypothesis about how something was handled 30 years ago?

It would have been a much shorter conversation if you had said that at the beginning of this discussion.
SOrry, the press reports are pretty clear. THe only police investigation they mention is post-82.


But then you knew that.


In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Copper
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Shortstop
CHAS
Mar 14 2010, 01:53 PM

Yep, the Roman Catholic church hates me. I hate it.

They spend a lot of time teaching homophobia and spend millions to keep homosexuals down.

Yes and you in particular.

There are legions of deviants who work tirelessly just to keep you down.

And they will never stop.

They'll just keep coming at you.

God gave them this mission.

Phlebas is next.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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