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Guess Who Used To Go To Canada For Health Care?
Topic Started: Mar 8 2010, 02:29 PM (964 Views)
George K
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Finally
Oh, and when your kids have a cold, do you go to the Mayo Clinic? Do you "move heaven and earth" to do that?

If they need stitches, do you get on a plane and fly to MGH?

But, if you need cancer treatment for a rare tumor, if you need a heart operation that's not available near you, what will you do?

For minor things, you go to where it's convenient, close, and safe. Your point is, well, besides the point.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
Mar 9 2010, 10:41 AM
It was the only healthcare available in two emergency situations.

If you were in oh, say, Somalia and all that was available was Somalian healthcare, you'd go in an emergency. You can't draw any substantial conclusion out of that article at all.
That wasn't what he said. He said that the planes to Juneau (which was closer, btw) were unreliable, and that the ferry schedule was erratic. He did NOT say that they were unavailable in those circumstances.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Oh, for crying out loud.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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QuirtEvans
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George K
Mar 9 2010, 10:48 AM
Oh, and when your kids have a cold, do you go to the Mayo Clinic? Do you "move heaven and earth" to do that?

If they need stitches, do you get on a plane and fly to MGH?

But, if you need cancer treatment for a rare tumor, if you need a heart operation that's not available near you, what will you do?

For minor things, you go to where it's convenient, close, and safe. Your point is, well, besides the point.
Last time I checked, a cold wasn't an "emergency". Nor is the need for stitches. So, if it was an emergency, wouldn't you want the best care possible? A cold isn't typically considered to be life threatening, nor is the need for stitches ... can an infection in a seriously burned leg be substantially more life-threatening? How about rheumatic fever? Can either of those have substantially greater long-term consequences than a cold or a few sloppy stitches?

Your point is, well, deliberately attempting to distract from the actual facts in question.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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QuirtEvans
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George K
Mar 9 2010, 10:45 AM
QuirtEvans
Mar 9 2010, 10:37 AM
The Palin family thought enough of the Canadian health care system that they used Canadian health care services.
Because they couldn't get to Juneau, as her father explained.
That isn't quite what he said. He said the service to Juneau was less reliable. An "erratic" ferry schedule doesn't mean that there were no ferries at all, for example. It sounds as if he just didn't like the ferry. In the middle of an Alaskan winter, I could hardly blame him, but, like it or not, if it was a serious medical situation, I'd get my kid on the boat, if that's what it took to get the best care possible.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
That isn't quite what he said. He said the service to Juneau was less reliable. An "erratic" ferry schedule doesn't mean that there were no ferries at all, for example.



Quirt, you are capable of better than this. The man said the he had to go to Canada twice. Any thinking person reading what he said can tell that his point was that the ferry was unreliable due to weather conditions, and in those two instances the ferry wasn't an option so he went to Canada. He didn't go because the health care was free, because for him, it wasn't. He went because that was the only option available at the time of the emergency.

Geez...

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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George K
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Finally
First of all, stitches *are* an emergency. If not closed within a certain period of time wound healing can be "erratic".
Quote:
 
An "erratic" ferry schedule doesn't mean that there were no ferries at all, for example.

No, it doesn't. Perhaps there's not one running today, or tomorrow, or until Sunday. But your kid has a burn and you think he needs to be seen. Whatcha gonna do?

What Chuck did was get his kid to the hospital (any hospital) as quickly as possible. The train was reliable, the ferry was erratic ("characterized by lack of consistency, regularity, or uniformity"). I can just imagine the scenario. He gets his kids on the ferry, gets them to the hospital, and when all's done, "I'm sorry, sir, but the next ferry north won't be leaving for about a week. We've got some nice hotels here, though."

You're stretching, Quirt. I, for one, have taken my kids to the "doc in the box" because it was the most convenient place for me at the time. Do you investigate every doc your kid sees? Do you investigate every doc that *you* see? If there's someone that you think is better, across town, or across the state (and I'll guarantee there is - there's *always* someone better), do you go there? If not, how come?

And, if the care was good enough, good for everyone involved. You don't need to be Harvey Cushing to treat a burn on the leg, or to sew up a laceration.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
And let's not forget that this was 40 years ago. Forty years ago, GM was king of cars. More than a few things hae changed since the 60's and 70's, Quirt.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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QuirtEvans
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George K
Mar 9 2010, 11:14 AM
First of all, stitches *are* an emergency. If not closed within a certain period of time wound healing can be "erratic".
Quote:
 
An "erratic" ferry schedule doesn't mean that there were no ferries at all, for example.

No, it doesn't. Perhaps there's not one running today, or tomorrow, or until Sunday. But your kid has a burn and you think he needs to be seen. Whatcha gonna do?

What Chuck did was get his kid to the hospital (any hospital) as quickly as possible. The train was reliable, the ferry was erratic ("characterized by lack of consistency, regularity, or uniformity"). I can just imagine the scenario. He gets his kids on the ferry, gets them to the hospital, and when all's done, "I'm sorry, sir, but the next ferry north won't be leaving for about a week. We've got some nice hotels here, though."

You're stretching, Quirt. I, for one, have taken my kids to the "doc in the box" because it was the most convenient place for me at the time. Do you investigate every doc your kid sees? Do you investigate every doc that *you* see? If there's someone that you think is better, across town, or across the state (and I'll guarantee there is - there's *always* someone better), do you go there? If not, how come?

And, if the care was good enough, good for everyone involved. You don't need to be Harvey Cushing to treat a burn on the leg, or to sew up a laceration.
I think you're the one stretching, George. You're making assumptions that aren't within the facts.

And, in the end, you've made my point. Canadian health care is just fine. Good enough, as you put it. So, the next time you start in on how Canadian health care can't match up, I'll remind you of that.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
And, in the end, you've made my point. Canadian health care is just fine. Good enough, as you put it.


The only point that has been made is that 40 years ago, Canadian health care was good enough that if it was your only choice in an emergency, you'd go there.

It says nothing about either the quality of it or the lack of quality. It does not show the man had a preference for it. It does not show a single thing you've argued that it does.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
In short, the article was devoid of significance from the moment it was conceived. It does not even rise to the level of trivia.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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George K
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Finally
What assumption did I make, Quirt? Her father explained why they went to Canada - convenience and reliability.

As the mayor of Skagway said:
Quote:
 
The train in the 1960s often was the only option for getting to a doctor, Skagway Mayor Tom Cochran said.

(I bolded it so you wouldn't miss it this time)

Only option. Get that? The only way you could get to a doctor was to take the train to Canada. The only way. He didn't choose it, the geography, infrastructure and climate did.

Does the fact that Palin's father chose the most reliable (that is, least erratic) form of transportation in 1960's Alaska mean that he prefers Canadian healthcare over that of the US? Of course not again.

It was good *enough* for what they needed.

Now, as I asked you, do you go to the best pediatrician in New England? If not, how come? Is it a matter of distance, convenience, or perhaps, for the simple needs of vaccinations, immunizations and physicals, it's good *enough.*.

If you can find a spot where I said the Canadian system isn't good enough for most things, you're sadly mistaken. I have criticized wait times, and I have pointed out differences in survival for many diseases (such as prostate and breast cancer), but, unless you can show me where I criticized it for simpler things, you're stretching - again. You're putting words in my mouth by omitting the obvious premise of my point: it was good enough for treating a burn or sewing up a laceration. I never said it was good enough for everything.

Because my parents made fish for dinner on Friday nights when I was six, does that automatically I like fish? Of course not - as a matter of fact, I *hate* fish.

But for you to call Palin a hypocrite because of choices made BY HER PARENTS when she was six is ... well, I don't have an adjective handy there.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Chris Aher
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Middle Aged Carp
A couple of comments here.

I spent some time in Alaska and the Yukon in 1970. I hitchhiked up there via the AlCan highway (a mostly gravel road at that time!) I spent some time in Whitehorse and Carcross. (the end of the road towards Skagway) I have also been to Skagway more recently. At that time Skagway was a very small village, isolated with very few residents. It was quite isolated. The road to Whitehorse wasn't put in until the 80s IIRC. I spent some time in Whitehorse and Carcross. (the end of the road between Whitehorse and Skagway) The railroad was the only way to get from Skagway other than walking about 70 miles of so over a very hairy pass(Chilcoot?). Juneau was only reachable from Skagway by boat/ferry or bushplane. All of these were very weather dependant and could take days. Alaska was very much a frontier in those days. It was very exciting but most certainly not for the feint of heart. It was a real eye opener for a kid from Brooklyn. I seriously considered moving there permantly, but when I got my job at Lincoln Center back in NYC, my life went in the classical music direction.

I don't particularly care about SP, but there are some damned silly comments from folks who don't know what they are talking about. This isn't Scarsdale.

As far as healthcare and other services were concerned, there was a very close relationship between Alaska and the Yukon in those days. Canadians from the Yukon were treated somewhat like Alaska residents and visa versa. They seemed to pull together in the face of a pretty primative and extreme environment. In 1971, an old friend of mine (American) was in a very serious car accident on the Alcan highway near Whitehorse and spent a month in the hospital there. She had no money to play the bill but was told, just pay what you can, when you can. Last time I heard from her (about 30 years ago) she was still sending a check whenever she could. She was very well treated and appreciated it.

Regards,
Chris
Regards,
Chris
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
George K
Mar 9 2010, 12:31 PM
What assumption did I make, Quirt? Her father explained why they went to Canada - convenience and reliability.

Assumption:

Quote:
 
What Chuck did was get his kid to the hospital (any hospital) as quickly as possible.


What Chuck said:

Quote:
 
"There was no road out of there at that time," said retired teacher Chuck Heath, reached by phone in Wasilla. "The ferry schedule was very erratic. We had no doctor in Skagway. The plane schedule was very erratic. The winds dictated whether the planes could come in or not."


One of these things is not like the other ... he never said that he got his kid to the hospital, any hospital, as quickly as possible. He said that getting the kid to Juneau COULD be difficult.

Quote:
 
As the mayor of Skagway said:
Quote:
 
The train in the 1960s often was the only option for getting to a doctor, Skagway Mayor Tom Cochran said.

(I bolded it so you wouldn't miss it this time)


Gee, thanks, I'd never have seen it if you hadn't bolded it. First of all, the mayor doesn't know why the Palin family went where they went. Second, often isn't the same as always.

Quote:
 
for you to call Palin a hypocrite because of choices made BY HER PARENTS when she was six is ... well, I don't have an adjective handy there.


Show me where I called her a hypocrite. Or man up and apologize.



It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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George K
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Finally
QuirtEvans
Mar 9 2010, 01:15 PM
Show me where I called her a hypocrite. Or man up and apologize.



Quote:
 


"You betcha!" being a clear reference to Palin getting care north of the border.

and then...
Quote:
 
Apparently, her family thought Canadian health care wasn't too substandard.


Now, explain to me how these two statements aren't meant to imply that she's a hypocrite? Are they unrelated? Is one "not like the other?"
Quote:
 
One of these things is not like the other ... he never said that he got his kid to the hospital, any hospital, as quickly as possible. He said that getting the kid to Juneau COULD be difficult.

Care to cite where he said it "Could" be difficult? He talks about the erratic schedule of ferries and planes.

And the mayor said the train is the only option. Despite my having bolded it, you seem to ignore it. Or, according to your logic, he should have waited until it was less difficult.

Let's see if we can follow this logically, and yeah, logic sometimes makes assumptions, okay?

1) Kid needs to go to hospital - as decided by parent.
2) Parent quoted in paper that transportation to Juneau is erratic
3) Mayor of town says the only way to get to a hospital is to take train to Canada
4) Parent gets on train to Whitehorse.

Hmmmm.... yeah, I guess that was a huge leap for me. Obviously, the old man could have walked (as Chris points out) or just waited until spring when the ferry is more regular (and regular could mean weekly, couldn't it?), or waited for the weather to get better so he could fly there.

Let's see, rheumatic fever and an infected leg. Yeah, that could certainly wait for transportation to be more convenient. Or, if it really was an emergency, they could have walked to Juneau.

You're right. A totally unwarranted assumption on my part. He could have waited.

I apologize.




So, do you take your kids to MGH? If not, why not?

A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
George K
Mar 9 2010, 01:34 PM
QuirtEvans
Mar 9 2010, 01:15 PM
Show me where I called her a hypocrite. Or man up and apologize.



Quote:
 


"You betcha!" being a clear reference to Palin getting care north of the border.

and then...
Quote:
 
Apparently, her family thought Canadian health care wasn't too substandard.


Apparently, you are suffering from an irony deficiency. The fact remains that I never accused her of hypocrisy on this particular issue.

And that's the issue on which you owe me an apology.

Quote:
 
Care to cite where he said it "Could" be difficult? He talks about the erratic schedule of ferries and planes.


OK, right here:

Quote:
 
The winds dictated whether the planes could come in or not."


I assume you can make the intellectual leap that if the planes "could come in or not", that sometimes they could ... and, aside from the fact that the words are not identical, are you really nitpicking the difference between difficult and sometimes impossible?

Quote:
 
So, do you take your kids to MGH? If not, why not?


Hell no. If it was something serious, we'd be at Children's.

The point is, every situation is different. When my kid had an airway issue that was difficult to diagnose a few years back, damn straight we went to Children's. Most of the time, we don't. And I'd never try to say that the quality of care at our local hospital isn't good enough. I'm not the one who has spent several months attempting to disparage Canadian health care.

It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Chris Aher
Mar 9 2010, 12:47 PM
A couple of comments here.

I spent some time in Alaska and the Yukon in 1970. I hitchhiked up there via the AlCan highway (a mostly gravel road at that time!) I spent some time in Whitehorse and Carcross. (the end of the road towards Skagway) I have also been to Skagway more recently. At that time Skagway was a very small village, isolated with very few residents. It was quite isolated. The road to Whitehorse wasn't put in until the 80s IIRC. I spent some time in Whitehorse and Carcross. (the end of the road between Whitehorse and Skagway) The railroad was the only way to get from Skagway other than walking about 70 miles of so over a very hairy pass(Chilcoot?). Juneau was only reachable from Skagway by boat/ferry or bushplane. All of these were very weather dependant and could take days. Alaska was very much a frontier in those days. It was very exciting but most certainly not for the feint of heart. It was a real eye opener for a kid from Brooklyn. I seriously considered moving there permantly, but when I got my job at Lincoln Center back in NYC, my life went in the classical music direction.

I don't particularly care about SP, but there are some damned silly comments from folks who don't know what they are talking about. This isn't Scarsdale.

As far as healthcare and other services were concerned, there was a very close relationship between Alaska and the Yukon in those days. Canadians from the Yukon were treated somewhat like Alaska residents and visa versa. They seemed to pull together in the face of a pretty primative and extreme environment. In 1971, an old friend of mine (American) was in a very serious car accident on the Alcan highway near Whitehorse and spent a month in the hospital there. She had no money to play the bill but was told, just pay what you can, when you can. Last time I heard from her (about 30 years ago) she was still sending a check whenever she could. She was very well treated and appreciated it.

Regards,
Chris
Good to see your post here, Chris! :wave:
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Copper
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Shortstop
George K
Mar 9 2010, 01:34 PM

So, do you take your kids to MGH? If not, why not?


He would if he thought it made Ms. Palin even scarier.

Oh my!
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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