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| Tub/shower remodel; Anyone have advice? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 8 2010, 11:48 AM (1,306 Views) | |
| Kincaid | Mar 8 2010, 11:48 AM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Our six-year old house has contractor grade one-piece fiberglass bathtub/shower units. Two of them starting to fail and one may be leaking. One has pitting and the finish came off in two places and exposed the fiberglass material and the other is on it's second round of "tub paint" trying to seal the bottom that was pitted and could not be cleaned. We also may be getting a leak as there is a stain on the carpet along the wall adjacent to the tub (and I can't get the kids to confess to spilling anything). I had a guy from "Re-bath" come out and I think their price is excessive. They will tear out the old tub/shower and install, fix any leak they find, put in a tub and three-piece shower walls with their proprietary "Dura-bath" material that is supposedly similar to the counter top material Corian. It is supposed to have a life time warranty but this is a local franchise that would install it. The piece are made to fit in a factory in Arizona and shipped here. The material is pretty attractive and has lots of options for colors and styles. However, the price quoted was over $5k and there are significant complaints that you can find on line. It looks like for much less money I can get a higher quality replacement tub/shower and maybe for still less than $5k I could even get some custom tile for the surround. Has anyone gone thru a remodel like that? Anything to look for, be concerned about, etc? Anyone have stone tile now? Porcelain? Grout or no? How hard to keep clean and looking good? Tub material? Seems like the only good choices are acrylic or porcelain enamel over cast iron. Edited by Kincaid, Mar 12 2010, 12:59 PM.
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| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| apple | Mar 8 2010, 11:57 AM Post #2 |
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one of the angels
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mr. apple's remodels are PRETTY pricey (and he is very competitive.... things are really expensive now.. not really commenting on the price, just suggesting it might be fair. |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 8 2010, 12:13 PM Post #3 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Porcelain tile is pretty easy to keep clean, it's the grout that's a PITA. I'd go with a tub and tile myself ... but tile guys don't come cheap. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Mar 8 2010, 12:23 PM Post #4 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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As a matter of fact, I just went through that last year. You can save some money if you do the demo, just be careful with the PVC drainpipes. I went with a full size shower, no tub. never use the tub anyway in the master bath, and we were able to steal a couple or three inches to make it wider. Quite luxurious. We did a 2" square travertine floor with 18 X 12 ceramic wall tiles and a multicolor stone and glass listello about eye level for decoration. Hardwood floor, which you might not want if your kids are younger. We did a vinyl liner with about a 4" sloped mortar bed. Painted the vanity (could not find anything we liked better for less than $3K, so forget it!) and put a formica countertop on it, clear glass sliding shower door, Fluence by Koehler. All totalled we spent about $6K on the project, all I did was the demo and painting. By the way, tiling is not difficult if you are handy at all. But get someone good to do your shower pan. Edited by Mikhailoh, Mar 8 2010, 12:24 PM.
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| ivorythumper | Mar 8 2010, 01:12 PM Post #5 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Are you on a wood floor or concrete? First or second floor? One big tip is to GUT the room -- take every thing back to the studs. This helps check for mold, and ensures that the replumbing and electrical and water proofing is done correctly. Use green board or cement board (Durock) on all the walls, and an underfloor waterproofing system. A lot of hints on Holmes on Homes (HGTV) about how to do it right, and how others do it wrong. We are looking to do similar projects in the near future, but our climate and building type is probably simpler to work with (dryer, no problem with insulation and freezing, etc). |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Kincaid | Mar 8 2010, 01:18 PM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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The bathroom is on the second floor - so, wood. Whether or not it is leaking is a mystery. It sure looks like water came out from the base of the wall - in a "bloom" pattern on the carpet. But it has never felt wet ever. Before I go nuts and rip it out, I'm going to shampoo the carpet (to see if any further staining happens) and get a moisture meter to check it several times. There's not been any evidence of water damage on the first floor. Mik - the shower sounds awesome! Did you seal it and do you wipe it down after every use? |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Mar 8 2010, 01:28 PM Post #7 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I did seal it really well. I do not wipe it down after every use, but I do wipe the glass with teh towel after I dry off. just a couple secons keeps it from water spotting - clear as could be. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Kincaid | Mar 12 2010, 01:10 PM Post #8 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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1. Well I cleaned the carpet and so far it is looking good. I haven't got the moisture meter yet to check it. 2. I did find a guy that will remove and reinstall the bath for $2500 minimum and he uses Kohler Vikrell that I read and sounds pretty good both for material (tough and the color is solid in case of a scratch) and installs without caulking so that sounds good too. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| kathyk | Mar 12 2010, 01:49 PM Post #9 |
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Pisa-Carp
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I just had a really spiffy tile shower installed in what had been a half bath. I love it, but then, I love tile. I was initially going to do it myself after my conttractor guy roughed it in, but he talked me out of it because of all the pitfalls, and basically teaching myself to do something that requires a fair amount of skill. I've done gobs of tiling, but putting in a shower basin and making sure it's all perfectly water proof is another matter. If done properly, tile will last forever and will also increase the value of your home (I think). The most that will need to be done is regrouting, and if the grouting is done properly in the first place, that should hold for a long, long time. If the grout is properly sealed, it's not that bad to keep clean either. Even easier would be to install a new tub (or use the existing one if it would work) and then tile the walls surrounding it. That's what we have in our old bath. I tore done melamine stuff and put up the tile (actually three times before I got it right, but that's a story you don't want to hear). ![]() Here's a detail of the Portugese fish tile. I love these sooo much. But, then, I just go gaga over tile in general. ![]() And this is the little shower, I was telling you about. It's a little bit of a stoop for tall people, but it works. I used sheets of polished stones for the floor. I not only love the look but they feel wonderful on the feet. ![]() ![]() Edited by kathyk, Mar 12 2010, 01:51 PM.
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| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| Kincaid | Mar 12 2010, 02:25 PM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Kathy, that is about the coolest tub I've ever seen! So, if that was a half bath before, where'd you get the tub? It looks very period. Regarding the shower, I like the pebble floor. I understand that kind of stone floor feels good underfeet. (edit: doh! just like you said).
Edited by Kincaid, Mar 12 2010, 02:29 PM.
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| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| Kincaid | Mar 12 2010, 02:27 PM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Oops! Never mind. I see that those are not the same bathroom. I was thinking the blue didn't quite go with the earthtones, but was just going to be polite and say nothing. Anyway, both bathrooms are very nice! |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| kathyk | Mar 12 2010, 03:41 PM Post #12 |
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Pisa-Carp
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The tub is original to the house or at least pretty darn old and it was here when we got here. I'm guessing they put the bath in sometime around the 20s. The walls are all subway tiled and the floors the little hexagonal tiles. I love the old stuff in the house and have gone to great lengths to try to preserve it, hence tiling the upper wall area and replacing the subway tile as needed. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| Steve Miller | Mar 12 2010, 10:59 PM Post #13 |
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Bull-Carp
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There are companies out there who refinish fiberglass tubs. The ones I have had done still look OK at 8 years out. About $400.
One piece fiberglass units have all sorts of issues but leakage is not generally one of them. Chances are your water leak is coming from a bad shower door or someone who does not keep the curtain closed. Worst case scenario is that the valves(s) are leaking in the wall - do you have an access panel?
Just so. A good tub (porcelain over cast iron - Kohler "Villager", etc. - with new, good quality valves goes for about $1200 installed around these parts. A three wall tile surround, installed over a mortar bed ("thick-set" or "mud-set" - the only proper way to tile a shower) goes for about $2K if you don't get slug-nutty with imported tile and the like. Properly installed tile lasts a very long time - like these apartment showers. Installed in 1949, cleaned only when the apartment changes hands, never re-grouted and still looking stylish: ![]() ![]()
Yup - lots of them. Did this one about 8 years ago at my own house. ![]() And this one on a flip house: ![]() ![]()
Yup - lots. Understand that I have seen fads come and go, and I have to stand behind whatever I put in. Some work very well, others fail spectacularly. For that reason I am something of a construction Luddite. The old ways are the good ways. So - tub and shower: 1. Cast Iron tub from a major manufacturer. White only please - that seafoam green job that looks so hot today is going to look like tail fins in 5 years. Acrylic might be OK - guys on line seem to like them - but with cast iron so cheap there is really no reason to screw around. 2. First class valves and drain fittings. The don't sell decent drain fittings Home Depot. You want something from a real plumbing supply house. Chrome over brass - no plastic. Maybe satin chrome over brass. Not brass over brass- it doesn't last. American manufacture please - hell hath no fury like that of a hausfrau who has just discovered that parts for her $2K European faucet set are no longer available. I like Kohler and Moen, myself, and here the high-end units at Home Depot seem to work fine. 3. Change the trap when you pull the tub, unless its ABS. ABS traps from plumbing supply houses are 3X heavier than ABS traps at Home Depot. You have been warned. Cast iron traps are a curse, especially newer ones. Some municipalities won't allow ABS - YMMV. 4. Tile the surround and avoid thin-set installations - even thin-set over Durock/Wonderboard - like a bad habit. If your tile man does not know how to float the surround square and install tile on a mortar bed, find another tile man. Run the tile to the ceiling and at least 6" past the edge of the tub, all the way to the floor. If the grout lines aren't perfectly square running up the wall from top to bottom (the tiles get smaller or larger as they progress) have it torn out and reinstalled. 5. Solid surface surrounds come and go. Corian works very well but looks dated now. There are new solid surface materials out there but I have not kept up with them. Tile is always in style if you don't get carried away with colors. Even if you do get carried away (love the pink and black one, eh?) if you wait long enough it will be "retro" and cool again. 6. Grout. White, light beige or light gray seem to work best because you can shoot it with Tilex to clean it. Tilex bleaches out the darker colors and it looks like hell after a while. 7. Caulk. There is a new caulk available that contains Microban. Microban won't sustain mold growth. I didn't believe it either but the stuff actually works - even the tenants can't screw it up. Accept no substitute. Trick with caulk for tubs installed on wood floors. Fill the tub with water before you caulk. The floor will sag a bit from the weight and the caulk gap will get wider. Let the water out after the caulk has set and the joint will be nice and tight. Shower - same as above with one additional caveat: The pan. Time was that a proper pan was hot mopped in like a roof. That's still a great way to go and if you can find someone who still does it that way by all means go for it. Nowadays the way to go is a modified bitumen "torched on" pan. $225. Worth every dime. I have seen plastic liners - ones that have failed. Maybe the new ones are better. I don't know and have no interest in finding out. Most important is the flood test. Block the drain and fill it with water for 24 hours. If there is any leakage at all, have it torn out and done again. If it leaks the second time, find another pan man. The one you have is clueless. If there is any question as to whether or not you know what a quality installation looks like, get a permit. You are supposed to get one anyway and they don't cost much. The inspector is going to look for things you have never even considered and that can be a good thing.
Yup - tumbled marble on the floor of the shower at my house. I like it - non-skid and enough color variation that it always looks good, even if it is time for cleaning.
Yup. Always a good choice. The choice comes pretty much down to style.
Grout, of course. I have never seen a groutless installation and the very idea gives me the shakes. Easy to clean - spray Tilex on it once a week. If it molds more often than that, put in a larger fan.
You are correct. There is a lower cost way to go however, if the cost of all this is making you queasy. Install a proper cast-iron tub with a three-wall fiberglass enclosure. They're cheap, they last a good long while if you stay away from the Ajax and will certainly do until you are feeling flush enough to spring for some tile. Even if it fails before that, you can put in another one for less than $500 and an afternoon of your time. |
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Wag more Bark less | |
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| ivorythumper | Mar 12 2010, 11:10 PM Post #14 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Good suggestions, Steve. I particularly like this one: Trick with caulk for tubs installed on wood floors. Fill the tub with water before you caulk. The floor will sag a bit from the weight and the caulk gap will get wider. Let the water out after the caulk has set and the joint will be nice and tight. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| musicasacra | Mar 12 2010, 11:52 PM Post #15 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Thanks Steve. |
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| Steve Miller | Mar 13 2010, 12:05 AM Post #16 |
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Bull-Carp
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These fish tiles are awesome! ![]() Tub is awesome too! Looks like it might be china rather than cast iron. Is it? |
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Wag more Bark less | |
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| blondie | Mar 13 2010, 12:21 AM Post #17 |
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Bull-Carp
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Interesting thread. Real good advice & tips. Good Luck Kincaid. I could get seduced by tile. Yup. I like the old pink and blue tile jobs Steve. Simple, timeless design. I want to remember that. I like kathyk's bathrooms a lot. Totally creative; often bold. That's so me. Diva Deb posted once a bathroom she did. I really liked that. I get so conflicted. It's like with quilt fabric. I want to get wild but in the end restrain myself somewhat. Tile, stones, glass, marble. I like it all & wonder if I should've gone into the trade in a past life. Good thing I've no bathroom to re-do soon. I need to turn the a L-shaped space underneath a full story of stairs into a urine-proof kitty bathroom [with 3 cat pans] soon. A subject for another day, but I keep looking at these threads here b/c I want to finish the space so I can simply slop-mop it down every week with bleach. I've used Thomson's water seal on the floor & stapled up heavy wt. poly over the bare studs for now. So I'm reading, learning from you folks about finishing shower walls & floors. Good thread!
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| Mikhailoh | Mar 13 2010, 04:04 AM Post #18 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I'm a tile guy myself. Looks great, lasts forever. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Kincaid | Mar 13 2010, 07:50 PM Post #19 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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1. I don't have an access panel. But the good news is I cleaned the carpet the other day and it looks good - no re-occurrence of any staining. I'm starting to think I had a kid spill something there and not fess up. 2. Thanks for the opinion on a cast iron tub - that is the way I'll go when it is time. 3. Thanks for the info regarding getting a good tile man (or woman). Not a place where I want to get cheap. I'll quit looking on craigslist. 4. I'm so glad you warned of darker grout - I'd thought before that dark grout might not show dirt, so maybe that was the way to go. I can deal with Tilex. I wish I had pix of the bathrooms in the 1920's house I grew up in - one was gold tile, one was black and green and the other was blue and pink. Loved them all. 5. So, how do you clean the tumbled stone tile you have? 6. The "groutless" tile enclosures I've seen have only been at home shows and only with large stone tiles - maybe they had no grout because they were just for display and had to be disassembled or maybe they had some kind of membrane behind them? We are talking about 16x16 square stone tiles or maybe bigger. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| Steve Miller | Mar 14 2010, 09:59 AM Post #20 |
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Bull-Carp
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The problem here is mostly hard water deposits. Acidic spray cleaners like Shower Power take care of that pretty easily if you do it regularly. If you tend to let things go, a more acidic cleaner (Lime Away, CLR) might be required) but that's about it.
It must be just for display. I can't imagine what sort of mold forest would grow on that membrane behind the tiles otherwise. |
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Wag more Bark less | |
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| 1hp | Mar 14 2010, 02:41 PM Post #21 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I live in a 3 story townhome and re-did one of the bathrooms on the top floor. For reference, I had a leak develop after thebathroom was 20 years old. Seems someone put a nail through the drain pipe 20 years before and it finally rusted out leaving a hole for water to drain out of. I demo'd the bathroom myself leaving only the tub (iron) in place. I also ripped out most of the drywall on 3 walls, treated the mildew in the bathtub shower area, then installed tar paper and cement board for the shower. I also put cement board on the floor, and as the vanity was going to be have matching tile as the top surface, it received cement board too. I refinished the rest of the vanity (single sink), and reinstalled it then called around to find a tiler. The tile I had put in was tumbled stone (moca coloured) in various sizes. The bathroom walls are tiled up to just higher than the vanity, though the shower is tiled much higher obviously (it's a shower bath combo). Can't remember but think the tiler charged me around $2,500 including installation of the sink and toilet (they are grouted in) and all fittings. I used some 1 inch and 2 inch square tile to line the top all the way round. Finished job looks nice. I spent extra on grout sealer (which I did myself). Can't offhand remember what I used but I can find it if you're interested. That was 3 years ago, and the tumbled stone has stood up to the wear and tear well. Probably due for a re-seal. A good web forum that I used can be found HERE. I read it pretty extensively before I started. Lots of good info from tilers. Edited by 1hp, Mar 14 2010, 02:42 PM.
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| There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................ | |
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| Steve Miller | Mar 14 2010, 09:18 PM Post #22 |
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Bull-Carp
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Probably 511 impregnator - seems to be the standard these days. Works very well, smells terrible. |
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doh! just like you said).






11:13 AM Jul 11