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| "Presumed Donor" | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 6 2010, 12:15 PM (949 Views) | |
| Quagmire | Mar 7 2010, 10:15 AM Post #51 |
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Senior Carp
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You're probably right about my comparative chances. But no, I dont violate the golden rule. I would not refuse to accept donations, but I accept that there may not be donations available due to other people not donating. I respect others choices to not donate as I expect respect for my own choice. If someone chooses to donate, its not a violaton of the golden rule to accept it. I also re-evaluate every four years at license time. I think there will probably be a point in my life where I'll be comfortable becoming a donor. I'm not there yet. |
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| apple | Mar 7 2010, 11:23 AM Post #52 |
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one of the angels
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you can pick and choose of course how you apply the golden rule i 'choose life' in my decisions (i hope) |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| sue | Mar 7 2010, 01:09 PM Post #53 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I guess I have more faith in the medical community. I just don't see that happening. And I'd hate to think that someone in another room didn't live to see another day, because of a lack of a new kidney/heart etc., while my now useless body started rotting away. If that makes me naive, so be it. |
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| Quagmire | Mar 7 2010, 01:19 PM Post #54 |
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Senior Carp
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I have little to no faith in the medical community to behave ethically, since there's been plenty of incidents to the contrary. But please note, we live in different medical communities. I dont know anything about yours. Yes, I too would hate to see someone in the next room die for want of my organs, and I would certainly want them to have mine. I believe I made that clear in my first post. Please dont misrepresent what I was applying the naive remark to. If you trust OUR medical community to always behave ethically in the face of money, then yes I would have to call that naive. I've applied it to no other context. |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 7 2010, 01:26 PM Post #55 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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There is no profession that is 100% ethical. None. In a country of 300 million people, there will always be plenty of examples of unethical behavior, in every profession. So, either you trust no one, ever, or you have to make a judgment about what the likelihood of unethical behavior is, and what percentage risk you're willing to tolerate. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Quagmire | Mar 7 2010, 01:40 PM Post #56 |
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Senior Carp
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I dont believe the unethical examples of the medical community are just the random chance percentage that you compare it to. I think there's a fairly evident visibility of money-over-health dynamics. Being in bed with drug and insurance companies to over-prescribe is a big example. That's not just a few here and there; that permeates the community. Selling unnecessary surgery is another. As for the choice in trust levels. I choose your latter example, to make a judgement. I've already acknowledged its a long shot. But few choices are made on just math and cognitive reasoning. There's always an emotional component that biases the final verdict. That would be the 'paranoia' I refered to in my first post. That is to say, I am overly sensitive about it, despite probability statistics, to the point of not being comfortable with the idea. So that renders my judgement line in a different place than yours or the next guys. I'm not going to apologize for that. |
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| apple | Mar 7 2010, 01:43 PM Post #57 |
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one of the angels
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i think it unethical to not be altruistic.. just me |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| Quagmire | Mar 7 2010, 01:46 PM Post #58 |
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Senior Carp
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Show me one person who has lived their life walking that line spotlessly. Doesnt exist. |
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| sue | Mar 7 2010, 01:59 PM Post #59 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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hey hey, down boy. I wasn't trying to pick a fight; I got what you were saying, and I was just responding in a personal thinking, random stream kind of way. |
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| Quagmire | Mar 7 2010, 02:03 PM Post #60 |
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Senior Carp
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| sue | Mar 7 2010, 02:07 PM Post #61 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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| Copper | Mar 7 2010, 02:46 PM Post #62 |
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Shortstop
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Good point. If you apply the Rowe V Wade privacy principle it's none of the government's business whether I choose to donate my body. Although I'm male I'm not sure if I have privacy under Rowe v Wade. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Axtremus | Mar 7 2010, 02:48 PM Post #63 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Quirt essentially solved the problem. Further complications may arise you let people stipulate whom their organs may nor may not be donated too, but the basic problem is already solved. |
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| Copper | Mar 7 2010, 02:52 PM Post #64 |
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Shortstop
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I would charge a congressman extra for my body parts - either party. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| ivorythumper | Mar 7 2010, 03:29 PM Post #65 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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What is the solution? To require everyone to make a choice (or do you include that "no choice" defaults to "no" -- which is what we already have and doesn't require any further legislation)? How do you deal with minors? How do you deal with people moving in and out of states? Do you want this controlled from a national centralized database? What about people who don't have to file income tax or don't drive? I think a better solution is to give people the option to donate organs with a complete exemption from estate taxes for their survivors. If it is of such great value to implement a mandatory program to force people to decide, then it is worth making it worth their while. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| sue | Mar 7 2010, 03:33 PM Post #66 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'm sorry, but I think that's horrible. Now you're putting a price on it. I wouldn't want Aunt Bertha to say 'yes' to organ donation just because she'd feel guilty about the taxes her dependents would have to pay. That would get ugly real fast. |
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| ivorythumper | Mar 7 2010, 03:36 PM Post #67 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Well, at least that is a free will decision each person gets to make for themselves, without the State presuming the authority to dispense of body parts like a lost luggage department. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Moonbat | Mar 7 2010, 04:29 PM Post #68 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Meh i don't see why people should even have the option to opt out. When you die you're dead, your body isn't "yours" because there is no "you" for it belong to. |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| Copper | Mar 7 2010, 04:32 PM Post #69 |
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Shortstop
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It belongs to the family. Some families don't like to have loved ones cut up into little pieces. Some do - see Ted Williams. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 7 2010, 04:32 PM Post #70 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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You believe in a 100% inheritance tax, then? |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Improviso | Mar 7 2010, 04:54 PM Post #71 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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There's a place in DC for Moonbat, along with all the other little moonbats running around up there. |
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Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism. We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. | |
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| Axtremus | Mar 7 2010, 04:55 PM Post #72 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Default = no is fine. Minor = ask legal guardian. Estate tax exemption for organ donation = non sequitur red herring bull****. |
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| ivorythumper | Mar 7 2010, 05:02 PM Post #73 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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If the default = no, then there is no need for further legislation since that is what we have apart from the sort of crappy laws such as the one Illinois is trying to introduce. I don't know why you got so upset about the idea of estate tax exemption. If the government wants to encourage something for the "public good", then it makes sense to give people incentives. I can understand why a leftist would rather the state be coercive and confiscatory, since that is more "efficient", but most people seem to respond better to positive incentives to cooperate rather than punitive disincentives for noncooperation. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| ivorythumper | Mar 7 2010, 05:05 PM Post #74 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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So you assume it belongs to the State? What about every other private good the former you once owned? Or do you reserve this power of the State to confiscate and redistribute private goods only to body parts?
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| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| jon-nyc | Mar 7 2010, 05:08 PM Post #75 |
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Cheers
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Just curious, why didn't you say 'The ethics of organ donation are not settled.'? |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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What about every other private good the former you once owned? Or do you reserve this power of the State to confiscate and redistribute private goods only to body parts?

4:25 PM Jul 10