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"Presumed Donor"
Topic Started: Mar 6 2010, 12:15 PM (946 Views)
George K
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Finally
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=3613&GAID=10&DocTypeID=SB&LegId=51786&SessionID=76
Quote:
 
Synopsis As Introduced

Amends the Illinois Anatomical Gift Act. Provides that, on and after July 1, 2012, each resident of Illinois who is of sound mind and who has attained the age of 18 years is presumed, by operation of law, to have given all of his or her body for any organ donation purposes. Allows an individual to opt out of the presumed donation by executing an anatomical gift as otherwise provided in the Act or by filing with the Secretary of State an organ donor opt out document. An individual who has filed such a document shall be included in an Organ Donor Opt Out Registry maintained by the Secretary of State. Requires representatives of federally designated organ procurement agencies and tissue banks and the offices of Illinois county coroners and medical examiners to inquire of the Secretary of State whether a potential organ donor's name is included in the Organ Donor Opt Out Registry and, if not, whether the name is included on the First Person Consent organ and tissue donor registry. Allows an individual to withdraw his or her opt out by notifying the Secretary of State in writing.

In other words, unless you specifically say "NO", you're organs belong to the state of Illinois (please, please, don't pronounce the 's'). It'll be interesting to see how far this gets.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
It shouldn't get anywhere.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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blondie
Bull-Carp
Call me a nasty name. I so agree. Opt out policies are the way to go. Life is too precious to bury or cremate. Best share the chance of life with our fellow humans as a final living act of unselfishness on earth.
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George K
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Finally
First of all, I'm all in favor of organ donation (I'm one). But, your body does not belong to the state. It belongs to you, until you die, and then it belongs to your family. That's the presumption. No different from your house, or anything else you own. Those don't become property of the state when you die without your consent; why should your body?

There are a lot of people who will be shocked to discover that they're, all of a sudden, organ donors without their expressed consent.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Absolutely, George. It is not the state's property to take or to give.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
blondie
Mar 6 2010, 12:31 PM
Call me a nasty name. I so agree. Opt out policies are the way to go. Life is too precious to bury or cremate. Best share the chance of life with our fellow humans as a final living act of unselfishness on earth.
It would be unselfish if it were a voluntary gift. Presuming the authority to confiscate unless you object is not charity.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Copper
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Shortstop

Wow, I'd rather see legislation to punish someone for even thinking something like that.

Dale E. Risinger, David Koehler and Pamela J. Althoff are foul
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Copper
Mar 6 2010, 01:07 PM
Wow, I'd rather see legislation to punish someone for even thinking something like that.

Dale E. Risinger, David Koehler and Pamela J. Althoff are foul
Maybe society should just take their body parts and give them to someone more deserving-- they obviously aren't using their brains, for instance.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Might be they are simply overabusing the liver, too. It would explain a lot.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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apple
one of the angels
blondie
Mar 6 2010, 12:31 PM
Call me a nasty name. I so agree. Opt out policies are the way to go. Life is too precious to bury or cremate. Best share the chance of life with our fellow humans as a final living act of unselfishness on earth.


i agree.. so totally agree. i simply cannot understand how people could think otherwise... :eek:
it behooves me to behold
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apple
one of the angels
George K
Mar 6 2010, 12:37 PM


There are a lot of people who will be shocked to discover that they're, all of a sudden, organ donors without their expressed consent.
no no no

i think they would be delighted to know that their death was not just 'the end' that they enabled another to live without disability or simply live.

we need to reeducate ourselves to be less selfish.
it behooves me to behold
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Copper
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Shortstop
apple
Mar 6 2010, 03:42 PM

we need to reeducate ourselves to be less selfish.

For the government to think it somehow can actually claim our bodies is unthinkable.

The idea that you might have a claim on someone else's body parts is way beyond selfish.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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kathyk
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Pisa-Carp
apple
Mar 6 2010, 03:39 PM
blondie
Mar 6 2010, 12:31 PM
Call me a nasty name. I so agree. Opt out policies are the way to go. Life is too precious to bury or cremate. Best share the chance of life with our fellow humans as a final living act of unselfishness on earth.


i agree.. so totally agree. i simply cannot understand how people could think otherwise... :eek:
Me too.

The problem with the voluntary system is that only a fraction of the people who would donate ever get around to putting it in writing. Moreover, of those who have taken the step, if the evidence is not immediately available, it will be too late to harvest any organs. Our Maine health care directive form has a section in which a person can specify that he wishes to donate organs. But, what are the chances that that is going to be available in the case of an accidental or sudden death. Hell, I'm constantly having to have clients redo their advance directives because the hospitals either lose them or never intend to keep them in the first place. And young people in particular, (the ones whose organs are most vital and optimal for transplant), are not likely to have thought about organ donation.

So, by all means, let people opt out. If they feel outraged at the prospect of the state "owning" their organs (pretty silly concept really, since those organs would otherwise end up as a heap of ashes or worm food), let that motivate them to state their wishes.

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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
Mar 6 2010, 04:18 PM
apple
Mar 6 2010, 03:42 PM

we need to reeducate ourselves to be less selfish.

For the government to think it somehow can actually claim our bodies is unthinkable.

The idea that you might have a claim on someone else's body parts is way beyond selfish.
Odd disconnect between how unthinkably bad this allegedly is and how easy it would be to opt out. Fill out a form and problem solved. In practice, this will, in fact, save lives. I don't usually find the "if it was your loved one" type of argument persuasive, but as far as organ donorship goes, it seems a pretty reasonable way to think about things. As far as I know there are pretty long waiting lists for most organs, and people die while they're waiting. Those who's dead bodies are used for this were not so opposed to the idea that they bothered to fill out a form to stop it, so getting histrionic in their names doesn't sound reasonable.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
kathyk
Mar 6 2010, 04:37 PM
apple
Mar 6 2010, 03:39 PM
blondie
Mar 6 2010, 12:31 PM
Call me a nasty name. I so agree. Opt out policies are the way to go. Life is too precious to bury or cremate. Best share the chance of life with our fellow humans as a final living act of unselfishness on earth.


i agree.. so totally agree. i simply cannot understand how people could think otherwise... :eek:
Me too.

The problem with the voluntary system is that only a fraction of the people who would donate ever get around to putting it in writing.
It's such a morbid thought, what to do with one's own dead body. I suspect that the main reason few people opt in is because they don't want to think about it at all, rather than because they're dead set against donating their organ to someone who's life might be saved.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
People are dying because there are not enough organs being donated.
They need the organs that are going to waste.

I support this.
It is not the 'STATE' getting the organs, it is you neighbor's daughter.

I think the default should be to use the organs to help lives instead of letting them rot.
Sure if you want yours to rot that's your right, so sign a form.
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
Horace
Mar 6 2010, 04:42 PM
kathyk
Mar 6 2010, 04:37 PM
apple
Mar 6 2010, 03:39 PM
blondie
Mar 6 2010, 12:31 PM
Call me a nasty name. I so agree. Opt out policies are the way to go. Life is too precious to bury or cremate. Best share the chance of life with our fellow humans as a final living act of unselfishness on earth.


i agree.. so totally agree. i simply cannot understand how people could think otherwise... :eek:
Me too.

The problem with the voluntary system is that only a fraction of the people who would donate ever get around to putting it in writing.
It's such a morbid thought, what to do with one's own dead body. I suspect that the main reason few people opt in is because they don't want to think about it at all, rather than because they're dead set against donating their organ to someone who's life might be saved.
I agree. And I think it's a great idea.

If it doesn't matter enough for you to sign a form saying you don't want your organs used, you probably don't really care. And far better that your organs may then possible be used and do some good instead of just turning into worm food.
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
kathyk
Mar 6 2010, 04:37 PM
The problem with the voluntary system is that only a fraction of the people who would donate ever get around to putting it in writing. Moreover, of those who have taken the step, if the evidence is not immediately available, it will be too late to harvest any organs. Our Maine health care directive form has a section in which a person can specify that he wishes to donate organs. But, what are the chances that that is going to be available in the case of an accidental or sudden death. Hell, I'm constantly having to have clients redo their advance directives because the hospitals either lose them or never intend to keep them in the first place.
The reverse could also happen if this were to become law. They couldn't find the opt out directive, so the organs are harvested anyway.

Oops, we bad. Well, we might as well use 'em seeing as we ripped them out against his wishes. We just couldn't find that form and as we all know, time is of the essence when harvesting organs. He won't care, he's dead.

B.S. The government steals my money at death. They're not taking my organs too.

Improv just marked the state of Illinois (please, please, don't pronounce the 's') off the list as possible retirement states.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
There's actually a fairly simple solution.

Don't presume either way. REQUIRE each person to make a choice. Make it an annual filing ... part of the state income tax form, for example. Create a database within the state. Require each hospital to check the database before harvesting organs.

There, problem solved. No one who wants to donate will neglect to make the choice. No one who wants to be selfish will be forced to donate against their wishes. The state simply makes sure that everyone chooses, and makes the results of that choice available to hospitals.

Next?
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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CHAS
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Middle Aged Carp
Like many things it may take a generation before this is accepted.
Have to think about this for a while myself.

This could play hell with reincarnation.
Edited by CHAS, Mar 6 2010, 06:22 PM.
"You want to be Nice, or you want to be Effective? Make the law or be subject to it?"-Roy Cohn
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
The world you guys want is terrifying indeed. How long will it be before treatment is withdrawn in order to get reusable organs? After all.. they were going to die anyway. heck, someone might be saved if we go early.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Copper
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Shortstop

The problem is the idea that the state by default has claim on any of your stuff.

That is the opposite of freedom.

That can lead to real trouble.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Horace
Mar 6 2010, 04:39 PM
Copper
Mar 6 2010, 04:18 PM
apple
Mar 6 2010, 03:42 PM

we need to reeducate ourselves to be less selfish.

For the government to think it somehow can actually claim our bodies is unthinkable.

The idea that you might have a claim on someone else's body parts is way beyond selfish.
Odd disconnect between how unthinkably bad this allegedly is and how easy it would be to opt out. Fill out a form and problem solved. In practice, this will, in fact, save lives. I don't usually find the "if it was your loved one" type of argument persuasive, but as far as organ donorship goes, it seems a pretty reasonable way to think about things. As far as I know there are pretty long waiting lists for most organs, and people die while they're waiting. Those who's dead bodies are used for this were not so opposed to the idea that they bothered to fill out a form to stop it, so getting histrionic in their names doesn't sound reasonable.
I disagree. They do not make it easy -- "Allows an individual to withdraw his or her opt out by notifying the Secretary of State in writing." So what guarantee does the individual have that the bureaucracy will follow through to respect their wish? Suppose they are in an accident without identification? The presumption is to harvest.

Bad law.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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apple
one of the angels
good law
it behooves me to behold
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
apple
Mar 6 2010, 09:25 PM
good law
As a general principal, Apple, do you think the State can claim anything you aren't using and will never use again, and give it to someone else? Or do you just limit this to body parts?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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