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Life in hell
Topic Started: Feb 2 2010, 06:30 AM (245 Views)
John Galt
Fulla-Carp
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/01/12/life_in_hell?obref=obinsite
Let us begin anew, remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness.
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kathyk
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Pisa-Carp
Wow, is that a sobering read. Forty percent of Iraq's middle class exiled! I wish that anyone still hanging on to the idea that our invasion of Iraq was a good idea would read it.
Edited by kathyk, Feb 2 2010, 09:31 AM.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kathyk
Feb 2 2010, 09:30 AM
Wow, is that a sobering read. Forty percent of Iraq's middle class exiled! I wish that anyone still hanging on to the idea that our invasion of Iraq was a good idea would read it.


Quote:
 
True, for almost a quarter-century, Saddam Hussein oversaw a regime that systematically tortured and murdered up to a million citizens. But the key word is "systematically." As vicious as his regime was, there was a method to Saddam's madness.


So are you saying it is better to live in a country where violence is predictable because it is permanent governmental policy over a country where the violence is not predictable because the country is in temporary transition and lawlessness occurs while the US and Iraqi forces are working to restore civil order?

IF so, I think you sell your sense of security too cheaply.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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The 89th Key
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kathyk
Feb 2 2010, 09:30 AM
Wow, is that a sobering read. Forty percent of Iraq's middle class exiled! I wish that anyone still hanging on to the idea that our invasion liberation of Iraq was a good idea would read it.
FIFY
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kathyk
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Pisa-Carp
Quote:
 
So are you saying it is better to live in a country where violence is predictable because it is permanent governmental policy over a country where the violence is not predictable because the country is in temporary transition and lawlessness occurs while the US and Iraqi forces are working to restore civil order?


That seems to be what an awful lot of Iraqis are saying. We'll see how long this "temporary transition" lasts.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I bet the Kurds and Shiites aren't saying that.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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kathyk
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Pisa-Carp
I'm sure a lot of them aren't. But, in terms of sheer numbers, it looks like many, many more times people are dead and suffering as a result of the aftermath of the toppling of the government there than did under Saddam.

Even if the invasion had been a magnanimous humanitarian operation, it would have proved to be a huge mistake. Knowing what we know now (and a lot of us knew before the invasion) that it was based on trumped up allegations (to put it mildly) makes it all the more despicable.

Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
what "trumped up allegations" are you talking about?

and what specifically did *you* *know* before the invasion.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
kathyk
Feb 2 2010, 02:00 PM
I'm sure a lot of them aren't. But, in terms of sheer numbers, it looks like many, many more times people are dead and suffering as a result of the aftermath of the toppling of the government there than did under Saddam.

You've got to be freaking kidding me. Hussein's gulags alone were responsible for over 200,000 deaths. Then there was all the suffering and starvation when Hussein was spending the Oil for Food moneys on palaces. That's before we even get nto the gassing of the Kurds, the war with Iran and more.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Quote:
 
“Human Rights Watch estimates that as many as 290,000 Iraqis have been ‘disappeared’ by the Iraqi government over the past two decades,” said the group in a statement in May. “Many of these ‘disappeared’ are those whose remains are now being unearthed in mass graves all over Iraq.” If these numbers prove accurate, they represent a crime against humanity surpassed only by the Rwandan genocide
of 1994, Pol Pot’s Cambodian killing fields in the 1970s, and the Nazi Holocaust of World War II.


Here's a lovely PDF from www.usaid.gov that you may find interesting. It even has pictures. http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_mass_graves.pdf

I'm going to go through up now.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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