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| Thank you Lb; A beautiful tribute to Howard Zinn | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 1 2010, 12:08 PM (730 Views) | |
| kathyk | Feb 1 2010, 12:08 PM Post #1 |
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Pisa-Carp
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You posted this tiny snip from Howard Zinn in the Muslim contributions thread: " we were seeing the way children were channeled from their earliest years (without regard to their intelligence or creativity) into becoming factory workers, or unemployed, or lawyers, or " I was really curious about the context and found it. What a beautiful tribute to Howard Zinn. It's from Rabbi Arthur Waskow, Founder and Director of the Shalom Center. ----------------------------
---- Oh, and if you meant that as a dig, Lb, I have to laugh. No one ever channeled me for anything except getting married and having children. My parents felt that college wasn't necessary for girls, so I had to work by butt off to put myself through. And, then stupid me, what did I do, but go and get a music degree. It took me ten more years, a baby, a toddler and a ne'er-do-well husband to realize that I was going to have to depend on myself to support my family. That's why I finally went to law school. Edited by kathyk, Feb 1 2010, 01:25 PM.
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| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| lb1 | Feb 1 2010, 01:42 PM Post #2 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Support yourself, go to law school???? I thought that social programs provided all that for you. lb I |
| My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09 | |
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| ivorythumper | Feb 1 2010, 01:46 PM Post #3 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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You should say nice things about Jack, even if he's not here to defend himself. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| kathyk | Feb 1 2010, 04:20 PM Post #4 |
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Pisa-Carp
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What social programs would those be? I saved about 10K from my previous years of work as an office administrator. That paid for my first year. I borrowed the rest. Thankfully, tuition at that point was 11K year, compared to the 35K or so it is now. I turned down Boston College to go to Northeastern which had a co-op program in which after the first year, students alternate semesters working and studying. (It was a great program, and the only one of its kind in the country). I had four paying rotations/internships - one was at one of the biggest firms in Boston and it paid an obscene amount. I will admit this, at the end of my first year, after I gave my abusive husband the boot, it was hard making ends meet during the academic semesters (never got a dime of child support from him) and I was able to get welfare for those months - a total of nine. It gave me enough to pay my rent and utilities, buy food and also paid a stipend for child care. For that I was most grateful. I dare say, I've paid it back to the government many times over in the taxes I've paid since working as a lawyer. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| kathyk | Feb 1 2010, 04:22 PM Post #5 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Haha. I was waiting for that one. As it was we met during my second year while I was going through the divorce from hell. Third time is a charm. I lucked out big time. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| ivorythumper | Feb 1 2010, 04:39 PM Post #6 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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I'll not comment on the matter of luck, but I will say that Jack is a fine fellow and I am sure a wonderful life companion for you. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| lb1 | Feb 1 2010, 05:45 PM Post #7 |
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Fulla-Carp
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So you couldn't have done it without depending on social programs. While I worked on my degree I was working two jobs and supporting a family plus paying for your welfare and childcare. If you say it is easier for a man, BS. My sister after a nasty divorce where she also didn't get any childcare from her husband got her degree and masters without a dime of of social money. First time is the charm if you work at it. lb |
| My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09 | |
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| Larry | Feb 1 2010, 05:49 PM Post #8 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Not intending to speak for lb, but somehow I don't think he meant for one quote from the man that he saw merit in merits blowing it up into a "tribute". I could be wrong. But I don't think so. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| kathyk | Feb 1 2010, 07:12 PM Post #9 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Did you have a wife at home to take care of your kids? I didn't. Where did your sister park her kids while she was at school? Maybe hers were old enough to fend for themselves. Mine weren't. And as I said, I have more than paid it back in taxes. It worked out rather well for the government. Believe me, neither my first or second would have been a charm. I chose badly. They both made really wonderful sons, though. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| lb1 | Feb 1 2010, 07:18 PM Post #10 |
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Fulla-Carp
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That's rather arrogant isn't it. The government didn't actually pay for it, I did, and I didn't get anything back. lb |
| My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09 | |
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| Jack Frost | Feb 1 2010, 07:41 PM Post #11 |
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Bull-Carp
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LB, Kathy's reliance on help from the state was short-lived and minimal. As a single mother with two kids abandoned by a sociopathic husband, she had few alternatives. "Working at" the marriage was not an option any more than "working with" Hitler or Saddam Hussein would have been. Some folks are just too crazy to deal with. So the Commonwealth of Massachusetts took care of two little boys while she finished law school. A few thousand dollars. Certainly less than $10K. We pay more than five times that in taxes every year. Pretty good investment on the part of the guvernment I would say! One of the reasons I fell in love with her was her self-reliance and strength in face of adversity. Even the subsidised daycare was not her idea--a professor at the law school suggested it. The only monetary support I gave her in school was a gift of a very old and used Toyota Tercel to replace the car her ex destroyed so she did not have to get up an hour earlier every day to take her boys to daycare on public transportation every morning before going to school. The huge irony here is that kathy is very much like you...independent, self-reliant, hard working, and stubborn. You are blinded by your irrational hatred from seeing this and continue to assume the worst and attack her. Of course, that says a lot more about you than it does about her, as anyone who has met her will attest. jf |
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| Frank_W | Feb 1 2010, 08:19 PM Post #12 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Jack, that's real nice. I mean it. I think everyone gets along in life as best they can. I'm glad that for those who are doing their best to make it, that the social programs are there as a temporary crutch. I think this is as it should be. You don't want to know the kind of shetbags I come into contact with, who have made a whole life around sucking on welfare, lies in order to receive disability and social security, and are doing this as second or third generations, working so hard at sucking at the government's teat. In all fairness, Kathy doesn't strike me as that type of person at all, so if she needed a hand at the time, I'm glad it was there for her. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| ivorythumper | Feb 1 2010, 08:27 PM Post #13 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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hi Jack! I hope that defending your wife against is not the only reason you have to visit.
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| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Bernard | Feb 1 2010, 10:00 PM Post #14 |
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Senior Carp
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"The huge irony here is that kathy is very much like you...independent, self-reliant, hard working, and stubborn. " "...independent, self-reliant, hard working..." I've met kathyk and I've conversed with her in person and on these forums and I've read a lot of what she's written and we've had our disagreements (seriously) but of what Jonathan writes there is no doubt, in my humble opinion if I may say so. "... and stubborn." Eh. We should have a thread sometime on the subject of "stubborn" versus "conviction". What's the difference (if there is one)? I admire kathyk for her convictions but there have been times when I could only wish to share them. Edited by Bernard, Feb 1 2010, 10:00 PM.
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| lb1 | Feb 1 2010, 10:07 PM Post #15 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I figured you would show up.
She already said she had a degree and a good job, but she decided on a career change and had the taxpayers support her to do it.
There is that arrogance again. What about the people that went to school on their own dime so they could make that kind of money, who invested in them. There are people that need and deserve welfare, but I haven't heard anything you guys have said, except arrogance about how much taxes you pay, that makes me thing she deserved it. lb |
| My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09 | |
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| Bernard | Feb 1 2010, 10:20 PM Post #16 |
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Senior Carp
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lb1, you sound more than just stingy, you sound almost resentful. I am over 100 percent positive that kathyk has repaid society--not in taxes paid--but in services rendered, over and above what she accepted from the government in her time of need. I too, did in fact cut my own path but I too, cannot say it wasn't without government help. I was not encouraged to go to college. Some would say I was discouraged. I don't quite know where the truth lies, but what is for sure in my mind is that youth needs encouragement, so college was not in the cards for me. When I struck out on my own it was very much on my own, I knew that when the pitiful amount I'd saved ran out I'd have to work to support myself and without much support of the moral kind except in a very indirect and unspoken manner from a certain nebula in gaia's skies. But there came a time when I needed an operation and the only way it was going to happen was if the government paid for it because I had zilch and no insurance, no steady employment and no familiar support, there was nothing. The government paid for it. I often think about what my life would have been had the government not supplied the safety net that I needed. I am grateful. Otherwise I've never relied on the government (that's a lie of course, because I use what the government provides every day, but you know what I mean). Even though I've awaken unemployed with $0 (literally) and no idea how I was going to eat. It is quite amazing how resourceful we can be when confronted. We need safety nets because the potential of humanity is a good thing to believe in. I suppose the addage should be, "welfare should be legal but rare." We need even more than safety nets, and I would say in kathyk's case, it was simply a government loan which she's more than paid off. |
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| ivorythumper | Feb 1 2010, 10:34 PM Post #17 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Government grants allowed me to pursue my college education. I worked as well, since the grants and loans did not cover everything. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| lb1 | Feb 1 2010, 10:46 PM Post #18 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Bernard We just have a different opinion of what need is. I think that a person with a degree and a good job just isn't needy enough to draw on welfare to support a career change. Your situation, IMO was totally justified. Safety nets are needed and I support taking care of truly needy people. I work with a local charity and I see many truly needy and I see many that are screwing the system for all they can get. The big difference between the needy and the leeches is the needy are humble and appretiative of the help, the leeches are arrogant and think the system owes them. lb |
| My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09 | |
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| Bernard | Feb 1 2010, 10:54 PM Post #19 |
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Senior Carp
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lb, Maybe if you met kathyk you'd see that she's not a leech and doesn't have the entitlement attitude. Really! She's not the kind of person we need to worry about. I also know people along the lines of what Frank spoke of... that should be the real concern. |
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| lb1 | Feb 1 2010, 11:05 PM Post #20 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Bernard I never said she was a leech. But she has been posting for several years and she does have an entitlement attitude, not for herself (now that she is making a ton of money and doesn't need it), but for the whole welfare system. She has made this very clear over the years. lb |
| My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09 | |
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| Larry | Feb 1 2010, 11:14 PM Post #21 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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But there *are* other kinds of vermin.....
That is a fact. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| kathyk | Feb 2 2010, 05:52 AM Post #22 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Thank you, Bernard. I miss you. Funny thing is, lb, I have no resentment toward you, in spite of a lot of really nasty things you've said about me. I admire your life style and things you've accomplished in your life. I was also impressed with how you embraced Kenny. I learned a long time ago that harboring negative feelings is really unhealthy. Contrary to what Larry says, I live my life looking for the good in other people and not focusing on the bad. I also can't imagine hating someone just because they have a different world view than my own. C'est la vie. Edited by kathyk, Feb 2 2010, 05:52 AM.
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| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| Phlebas | Feb 2 2010, 06:04 AM Post #23 |
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Bull-Carp
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There certainly are a lot of begrudgers around. I have a lot of admiration for how KathyK was able to get out of a bad situation, change careers, and become a success. She's contributing a lot more with her work now than she could have as an office manager. Bottom line, it sounds to me like she figured out a way to provide for her family, and get ahead. |
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Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
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| Jolly | Feb 2 2010, 07:40 AM Post #24 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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I didn't take a dime of government money in my pursuit of a degree. On a slightly different tack, I think the government money in higher education is a lot of what is wrong with higher ed today. I certainly think it is the propelling force behind the massive increase in costs over the last few decades. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Feb 2 2010, 08:02 AM Post #25 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I really don't see what's up with all these attacks against kathy here. She pushes buttons sometimes but I don't understand what that has to do with how she changed her career and how she dealt with sh!tty marriages. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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I hope that defending your wife against is not the only reason you have to visit.


4:58 PM Jul 10