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$1.56 Trillion
Topic Started: Feb 1 2010, 11:12 AM (407 Views)
Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9DJHSR82&show_article=1

Quote:
 
The deficit for this year would surge to a record-breaking $1.56 trillion, topping last year's then-unprecedented $1.41 trillion gap, a number which had dwarfed the previous record of $454.8 billion set in 2008 under former President George W. Bush.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Oh, but this is all money that we need to spend to fix the problems that Bush caused. Didn't you get the memo?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
When I complained about unsustainable debt levels racked up by Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, you guys told me there was nothing to worry about. Now that we're painted into a corner and the options are poor, you want to imitate Chicken Little. You might try to be at least consistent.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
big al
Feb 1 2010, 01:44 PM
When I complained about unsustainable debt levels racked up by Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, you guys told me there was nothing to worry about. Now that we're painted into a corner and the options are poor, you want to imitate Chicken Little. You might try to be at least consistent.

Big Al
You wanna cite that one, Big Al? We have a search function and everything now.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
Well, we might start with this thread: The Spending Explosion - WSJ .

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Alot of people had issues with Bush's spending. Even in that thread you posted, Mik even made comments wondering if Gore or Kerry would have been more fiscally responsible. Either way, I'm sure you can see why a 350% increase in deficit over 2 years can be a little troubling, no matter who's president and what party is in office.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
big al
Feb 1 2010, 02:06 PM
Well, we might start with this thread: The Spending Explosion - WSJ .

Big Al
Try again, Al. JB's point was not "there was nothing to worry about" but that tax policy and the increase in revenues from economic *growth* need to be factored in.

Got anything else to substantiate your accusation?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
I have never carried any brief for deficit spending unless there was some emergency (like a war) to justify it. Al's confusion stems from the fact that he thinks lower tax rates inevitably mean lower revenues and that is a rather simplistic way of looking at things. One simplistic view that I would agree with is that lower government spending will reduce deficits but then there are those who believ increased government spending equates to increased economic activity (I am not one of those). Atany rate, I was not in favor of deficits run up by Republicans any more than by Democrats but what Democrats have done since they took control in '06 is nothing short of reprehensible. I suppose Bush should share some blame but historically presidents have had little power in reigning in Congresses determined to spend money. Certainly, Obama is not getting anywhere on that front. Even his (very) modest freeze got a chilly reception from congressional Democrats.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Mikhailoh
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ivorythumper
Feb 1 2010, 01:45 PM
big al
Feb 1 2010, 01:44 PM
When I complained about unsustainable debt levels racked up by Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, you guys told me there was nothing to worry about. Now that we're painted into a corner and the options are poor, you want to imitate Chicken Little. You might try to be at least consistent.

Big Al
You wanna cite that one, Big Al? We have a search function and everything now.
He saw it on Cabal TV.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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George K
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Finally
Mikhailoh
Feb 1 2010, 03:22 PM
He saw it on Cabal TV.
When I moved, I couldn't get satellite, so I got Cabal....
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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big al
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Bull-Carp
You might also want to consider this thread: Budget deficit good news has experts worried; from The Wall Street Journal (got love that search feature).

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
big al
Feb 1 2010, 04:53 PM
You might also want to consider this thread: Budget deficit good news has experts worried; from The Wall Street Journal (got love that search feature).

Big Al

I have no idea why you think the search function is such a good thing, considering that the thread you pointed us to does not even mention Reagan, you did not mention the "unsustainable debt levels racked up by [Republicans]" and I saw no evidence of anyone telling you to not worry.

Do you want to point me to anything in that thread that supports your accusation that "When I complained about unsustainable debt levels racked up by Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, you guys told me there was nothing to worry about."???

One more strike and you're out.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Whatever happened to Spelvin? He was a pretty cool bloke.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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George K
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Finally
John D'Oh
Feb 1 2010, 05:14 PM
Whatever happened to Spelvin? He was a pretty cool bloke.
Yep. The other day, I was thinking about starting a thread about all the neat people who are gone. Spelvin is one of them. TCMOD and JohnnyMoonlight are a couple of others.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Marlboro Man
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George K
Feb 1 2010, 05:17 PM
John D'Oh
Feb 1 2010, 05:14 PM
Whatever happened to Spelvin? He was a pretty cool bloke.
Yep. The other day, I was thinking about starting a thread about all the neat people who are gone. Spelvin is one of them. TCMOD and JohnnyMoonlight are a couple of others.

That's the problem with anonymity.
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Bond, James Bond
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Middle Aged Carp
Marlboro Man
Feb 1 2010, 05:21 PM
That's the problem with anonymity.
Yes. :lol2:

Why don't you relax, and have a smoke?
Like Austin Powers, only more mature.
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George K
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Finally
Even the New York Times is amazed:
Quote:
 
WASHINGTON — In a federal budget filled with mind-boggling statistics, two numbers stand out as particularly stunning, for the way they may change American politics and American power.

The first is the projected deficit in the coming year, nearly 11 percent of the country’s entire economic output. That is not unprecedented: During the Civil War, World War I and World War II, the United States ran soaring deficits, but usually with the expectation that they would come back down once peace was restored and war spending abated.

But the second number, buried deeper in the budget’s projections, is the one that really commands attention: By President Obama’s own optimistic projections, American deficits will not return to what are widely considered sustainable levels over the next 10 years. In fact, in 2019 and 2020 — years after Mr. Obama has left the political scene, even if he serves two terms — they start rising again sharply, to more than 5 percent of gross domestic product. His budget draws a picture of a nation that like many American homeowners simply cannot get above water.

For Mr. Obama and his successors, the effect of those projections is clear: Unless miraculous growth, or miraculous political compromises, creates some unforeseen change over the next decade, there is virtually no room for new domestic initiatives for Mr. Obama or his successors. Beyond that lies the possibility that the United States could begin to suffer the same disease that has afflicted Japan over the past decade. As debt grew more rapidly than income, that country’s influence around the world eroded.
(emphasis mine)
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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big al
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Bull-Carp
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's tough to remember you came to drain the swamp."

I'm afraid that's about where the USA is now. We let the water rise too long.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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George K
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Finally
big al
Feb 1 2010, 05:56 PM
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's tough to remember you came to drain the swamp."

I'm afraid that's about where the USA is now. We let the water rise too long...
...and too fast. We are talking about double, triple, and quadruple the amount that many of us railed about in the last 10 years.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Copper
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Shortstop
George K
Feb 1 2010, 05:58 PM
big al
Feb 1 2010, 05:56 PM
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's tough to remember you came to drain the swamp."

I'm afraid that's about where the USA is now. We let the water rise too long...
...and too fast. We are talking about double, triple, and quadruple the amount that many of us railed about in the last 10 years.

It's starting to sound like the Carter days - when there was no hope of breaking out of the malaise.

Remember the lines at the gas station when the West was being exploited by the Middle East.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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big al
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Bull-Carp
And yet under Carter, the national debt as a percentage of GDP declined as it had under every administration since WWII. After that, it only occurred during Bill Clinton's second term. Here are the numbers...

Quote:
 
Roosevelt/Truman
D 1945-1949 -0.6%
Harry Truman
D 1949-1953 -23.9%
Dwight Eisenhower
R 1953-1957 -10.4%
Dwight Eisenhower
R 1957-1961 -7.9%
Kennedy/Johnson
D 1961-1965 -6.7%
Lyndon Johnson
D 1965-1969 -6.8%
Richard Nixon
R 1969-1973 -5.4%
Nixon/Ford
R 1973-1977 -0.9%
Jimmy Carter
D 1977-1981 -1.6%
Ronald Reagan
R 1981-1985 +7.3%
Ronald Reagan
R 1985-1989 +11.2%
George H. W. Bush
R 1989-1993 +12.2%
Bill Clinton
D 1993-1997 +3.0%
Bill Clinton
D 1997-2001 -9.8%
George W. Bush
R 2001-2005 +5.6%
George W. Bush
R 2005-2009 +6.3%


And by the way, the long lines at the gas stations were in 1973, during the first Arab oil crisis. The 1979 energy crisis following the Iranian revolution brought higher prices but did not impact production to the extent of the '73 embargo due to increased output by other producers.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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big al
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Bull-Carp
ivorythumper
Feb 1 2010, 05:07 PM
big al
Feb 1 2010, 04:53 PM
You might also want to consider this thread: Budget deficit good news has experts worried; from The Wall Street Journal (got love that search feature).

Big Al

I have no idea why you think the search function is such a good thing, considering that the thread you pointed us to does not even mention Reagan, you did not mention the "unsustainable debt levels racked up by [Republicans]" and I saw no evidence of anyone telling you to not worry.

Do you want to point me to anything in that thread that supports your accusation that "When I complained about unsustainable debt levels racked up by Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, you guys told me there was nothing to worry about."???

One more strike and you're out.
From the article George quoted at the beginning of that thread...

Quote:
 
Debt doomsday is a myth. The national debt has used up more than its share of the national debate on fiscal policy. Let’s press our politicians, on both sides, on the question of how best to grow the economy.


Now explain to me again how it's a myth when we're staring the wolf in the eye.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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Copper
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Shortstop
big al
Feb 2 2010, 06:43 AM

And yet under Carter, the national debt as a percentage of GDP declined as it had under every administration since WWII. After that, it only occurred during Bill Clinton's second term. Here are the numbers...

Nice numbers.

Remembering who happened to be president during economic ups and downs is helpful to remembering the times.

But that should in no way imply that the president had anything to do with it.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Gas lines happened again in 78-79, Al.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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