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| Get Terror Trials Out of Civilian Court | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 29 2010, 03:53 PM (1,411 Views) | |
| Jeff | Jan 29 2010, 03:53 PM Post #1 |
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Senior Carp
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http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/01/29/2010-01-29_get_the_hell_out_of_here.html Get the hell out of here: No terror trial in city, but send funds for WTC sick EDITORIALS Friday, January 29th 2010, 4:00 AM The precipitous and ill-conceived nature of Attorney General Eric Holder's plan to try the 9/11 masterminds in Manhattan Federal Court appears to have dawned on President Obama. Yesterday, the White House ordered a search for another trial venue. The right answer would be to convene a military tribunal at the one place fully outfitted for the occasion: Guantanamo Bay. Next best: a tribunal on a U.S. military base equipped with built-in security. Don't hold your breaths. Neither is, at the moment, in the offing because of Obama's determination to bring worst-of-the-worst terrorists into civilian court. Which means that, following the dictates of the Constitution, the hunt for a venue will likely be confined to Manhattan, the Bronx, Westchester and five northern counties. Such scouting is a fool's errand. There is no suitable place, and the concept of devoting as much as $1 billion over five years, as the NYPD estimates, to protect against enemy attacks is far beyond the pale of acceptability. Whether the White House is acting in good faith or simply to placate local Democrats remains to be seen. What's clear is that the administration acted hastily after perversely standing ready to saddle taxpayers with a $200 million-a-year tab while refusing to adequately fund health care for the rescue and recovery workers sickened by the toxic aftermath of the attack. On this matter, too, the White House faced an uproar and scrambled to commit to doubling the piecemeal contribution, for only next year, from $75 million to $150 million. Which isn't good enough at all from a President who had vowed while campaigning to help the Forgotten Victims of 9/11. If Obama believes the feds have the resources to stage a trial wherever, then the feds also have the wherewithal to pick up the health care bill. Obama needs only to switch Khalid Shaikh Mohammed to a military tribunal and then to direct the savings into programs for the 9/11 sick. Failing such a reversal, Congress needs to take command. Long Island Rep. Pete King got the ball rolling with a bill barring the Justice Department from holding terror trials in civilian courts. That type of measure may be the only salvation. Mayor Bloomberg has come around to urging that the trial be taken somewhere else. And so have New York's duo of late-to-the-ramparts senators, Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand. Imagine, too, the rude awakening suffered Wednesday by those two along with Reps. Carolyn Maloney, Jerry Nadler, Eliot Engel, Michael McMahon and 10 additional members of New York's congressional delegation. There they were, loyal Obama Democrats, who were sure their fellow loyal Obama Democrats would reverse the funding denials of the vanquished Bush administration. There they were, supporters of civilian terror trials. And there they were, stiffed by Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, who said, nope, there would be no long-term funding because, you know, these are tough times. But there would be money to turn lower Manhattan into an armed camp for the duration - assuming Obama ponies up for the security rather than dumping the costs on the NYPD. Gillibrand said she was stunned. McMahon said he was flabbergasted. Actually, they were betrayed and so were all those who were made ill by the malevolence of the very same man whose every right is being guaranteed. Now, Schumer, Gillibrand and the delegation have two tasks: Get the trial the hell out of here, and get the money. Edited by Jeff, Jan 29 2010, 03:54 PM.
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| Jeff | Jan 29 2010, 03:57 PM Post #2 |
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Senior Carp
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My guess: Dems lose 100 or more House seats unless they reverse course on this. They seem to have no clue how bad their decision is, and how deeply hated their decision is. It is not a liberal-conservative political difference; it is sheer blind callous stupidity on par with the Katrina response. For those who don't know, the Daily News is the more mainstream liberal of the two daily local papers (compared to the right-populist NY Post).
Edited by Jeff, Jan 29 2010, 04:30 PM.
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 29 2010, 04:32 PM Post #3 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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For those who don't know, the Daily News is not, and has never been, liberal. That's the NYT. The Daily News is the blue-collar paper in New York. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Frank_W | Jan 29 2010, 05:16 PM Post #4 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Why is there even a trial? Hrmph... (Yeah, I know... I know...)
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| George K | Jan 29 2010, 05:53 PM Post #5 |
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Finally
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Goodbye NYC 9/11 trials to be moved from NYC White House abandons plans to try alleged mastermind in Manhattan WASHINGTON - Pressured by a growing clamor from New York, the Obama administration has decided to move the trial of Sept. 11 terror suspects away from Manhattan, where it had been scheduled to take place just blocks from the site of the twin towers attack. Multiple media outlets, including NBC News, The Washington Post and The New York Times, reported on Friday night that the administration has abandoned its plan to try alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in the city. "New York is out," one administration official told the Post, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the decision had not yet been officially announced. "We're considering other options." The Justice Department is drawing up plans for possible alternate locations to try Mohammed and four alleged accomplices, two administration officials told The Associated Press earlier Friday. Though the officials wouldn’t discuss locations under consideration, others have suggested Governors Island, a former military base in New York Harbor that now welcomes summertime picnickers and bike riders; the U.S. Military Academy at West Point or Stewart Air National Guard Base in Newburgh, N.Y. New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly told reporters Friday that a backlash had made it “unlikely” the case would go forward in the city. He said plans to hold the trial there started to unravel after a speech he gave recently detailing the enormous costs and logistical challenges of ensuring security at the Federal Courthouse in lower Manhattan. Criticism of the plan, which had been announced by Attorney General Eric Holder last year, reached a crescendo this week when New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg reversed his earlier support. On his weekly radio show Friday, Bloomberg said he had spoken with “high level” people in the Obama administration about his concerns and they were “trying to do something.” |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Jolly | Jan 29 2010, 07:12 PM Post #6 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Eric Holder is an idiot. Again. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Jeff | Jan 29 2010, 07:31 PM Post #7 |
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Senior Carp
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The NYT is a national paper, and doesn't really count as a "local" paper. |
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| Jeff | Jan 29 2010, 07:35 PM Post #8 |
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Senior Carp
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That this wasn't obvious in, like, 10 seconds of consideration, indicates that Holder is not playing with a full deck of cards. He is not qualified to umpire a Little League game, much less be AG. Obama gets full blame for this, too. It's like Katrina for Bush. Simple rank operational incompetence openly evident regardless of party affiliation or ideology. Edited by Jeff, Jan 29 2010, 07:37 PM.
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 29 2010, 07:38 PM Post #9 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Whether that's right or not, and, given the New York metro area section of the paper, it's not, the Daily News still isn't liberal. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Jeff | Jan 29 2010, 07:46 PM Post #10 |
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Senior Carp
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Er, this means you are ultra-liberal. ![]() The Post is Republican, and News is (ok, blue-collar) Democratic. If the Dems keep up the Miranda rights and civilian trials for AQ terrorists who are not even citizens, they will turn Daily News-reading blue-collar Dems into Daily News-reading blue-collar Republicans. The NYT has lately veered to New Left collegiate weirdness. Edited by Jeff, Jan 29 2010, 08:10 PM.
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| Jeff | Jan 29 2010, 08:24 PM Post #11 |
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Senior Carp
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Holder didn't even consult the city leaders before proposing his daft plan: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/nyregion/30trial.html?hp The breakdown of support for the trials in New York might have actually been assisted by the way New York officials were first notified by the Obama administration. Mr. Holder called Mr. Bloomberg and Gov. David A. Paterson only a few hours before his public announcement on Nov. 13; and Mr. Kelly got a similar call that morning from Preet Bharara, the United States attorney in Manhattan, whose office had been picked to prosecute the cases. But by the time those calls were made, the decision had already been reported in the news media, which was how Mr. Bloomberg learned about it, according to mayoral aides. One senior Bloomberg official, speaking on condition of anonymity so as not to antagonize the White House, said: “When Holder was making the decision he didn’t call Ray Kelly and say, ‘What do you think?’ He didn’t call the mayor and say, ‘What would your position be?’ They didn’t reach out until it got out there.” Soon, though, New York real estate executives were raising concerns with the Obama administration, according to Mr. Spinola, president of the Real Estate Board of New York. Mr. Spinola said he had received calls and e-mail messages from the board’s members. Residential real estate brokers were “going berserk,” as he put it, worried that they would no longer be able to sell apartments downtown. Commercial brokers feared they would not be able to lease office space. On Nov. 20, the Friday before Thanksgiving, the real estate executive William C. Rudin held a meeting at his office to talk about issues with Jim Messina, a deputy White House chief of staff, according to Mr. Spinola. The meeting was not on the topic of the trials, but the executives pressed their case anyway. Mr. Spinola said that he told Mr. Messina, “I hope that the White House was going to put a ton of money into it.” A turning point came when Mr. Kelly spoke before a large business crowd at a New York Police Foundation breakfast on Jan. 13. After addressing the year’s highlights in crime reduction, he turned to the 9/11 trials, offering a presentation that was direct and graphic. “Whatever the merits of holding the trial in Lower Manhattan,” he said, “it will certainly raise the level of threat.” He said that “securing this area and the entire city for the duration of this event promises to be an extremely demanding undertaking.” He offered a detailed account of his department’s security plan, with inner and outer perimeters, unannounced vehicle checkpoints, countersniper teams on rooftops, and hazardous-materials and bomb squad personnel ready to respond. And he cited the hundreds of millions it would cost to protect the city during the trials. “The entire audience issued a collective gasp when it became clear that this was an event that could go on for years,” said one guest, Kathryn S. Wylde, president and chief executive of the Partnership for New York City. The unhappiness grew. During the Real Estate Board of New York’s annual gala, held on Jan. 21, Mr. Bloomberg dropped by, and Bloomberg officials said they got “an earful on that” from real estate executives, all of whom were angry and concerned about the plan Edited by Jeff, Jan 29 2010, 08:28 PM.
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 29 2010, 08:41 PM Post #12 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Why don't we sample some recent editorials from the Daily News?
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/01/29/2010-01-29_swab_the_guilty.html#ixzz0eA4WGslh Hmm, that one's not very liberal. Shall we try another?
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/01/28/2010-01-28_a_study_in_sabotage.html#ixzz0eA4zdVCS Hmm, that one's not very liberal either.
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/01/26/2010-01-26_daves_business_as_usual.html#ixzz0eA5bYOCo Wow, that one doesn't sound liberal either.
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/01/21/2010-01-21_get_smart_please.html#ixzz0eA6eYDrN And that one sounds like a Republican talking point.
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/01/19/2010-01-19_breaking_the_bank.html#ixzz0eA77n8lN That one reads like a Republican talking point, too.
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/01/17/2010-01-17_sicker_by_the_day.html#ixzz0eA7aEtqy That attack on unions doesn't sound particularly liberal. In fact, if there's one thing I could say about the Daily News editorial page, it's this ... it sounds closer to your views, point by point, than anyone else's here. Maybe you should actually read it more. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Jeff | Jan 29 2010, 08:58 PM Post #13 |
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Senior Carp
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The fact that the NYDN displays a tiny modicum of obvious common sense on budgetary, economic, education, union, and criminality issues, and does not veer into far left loonyism like the current op-ed page of the NYT, does not challenge the view of the paper as liberal to the Post's conservativism. The views above are not conservative, they are trivial obvious truths, like reporting the weather. I agree it is more blue-collar common sense liberalism than one gets from, say, the ravings of Maddow and Olberman and FDL, but it is the Democratic daily of NYC. There are some Democrats that are against crime, against terrorism, are pro-education, and want the economy to grow, you know. Edited by Jeff, Jan 29 2010, 09:11 PM.
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| Jeff | Jan 29 2010, 09:01 PM Post #14 |
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Senior Carp
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If you would like to understand my real views, you should peruse some articles from The City Journal. http://www.city-journal.org/ Think of it as a pro-urban Cato Institute.
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 29 2010, 09:10 PM Post #15 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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In other words, you will stick to your opinion, even though you can't (or won't) offer any support for it other than your statement that it's true, and even though the evidence I've presented suggests that it's patently untrue. You believe what you believe, and neither lack of support for your belief nor contrary facts matter. Whether you know it or not, the Democratic daily in New York is the New York Times. Always has been. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Jeff | Jan 29 2010, 09:17 PM Post #16 |
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Senior Carp
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Again, the fact that you think the common sense empirical reality based positions mentioned above are anti-liberal says more about how far left your politics are, as witnessed by the fact that the NYDN objections to the civilian trials seem to be winning the day even among Democrats. Over or under on whether the whole civilian trial thing gets scrapped (not merely moved) once the Dems focus group poll it and realize that blue-collar Dems are gonna vote blue collar Republican if they don't change fast. Carrying Madison, Berkeley and Ann Arbor isn't gonna win a national election, and that is the only base of support for Miranda rights and civilian jurys for AQ members. Do people read the NYT Metro section anymore? News to me. All I ever see are WSJs, NYDNs, and Posts. Edited by Jeff, Jan 29 2010, 09:23 PM.
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 30 2010, 04:14 AM Post #17 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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I never said they were ANTI-liberal. I said they weren't liberal. Which is absolutely true. I recognize that you have to create a strawman, and misinterpret my argument, because otherwise you'd look foolish in claiming the Daily News is a liberal paper, but those are the facts. Is the Post farther right than the Daily News? Of course. Doesn't change the point, though. And again, you're trying to change the subject, to ignore the foolish point you made and got called on. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Jeff | Jan 30 2010, 05:56 AM Post #18 |
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Senior Carp
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The NYDN is pro-abortion rights and pro-gay marriage and pro-medical pot, and so forth. If being "liberal" now means you must be pro-terrorist and in the pocket of corrupt unions, well, then, I suspect liberals will not do well in the next several elections. |
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| Beacon Chris | Jan 30 2010, 07:03 AM Post #19 |
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Junior Carp
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I read the NYDN and Post every day. Yea, the DN is about as liberal as the Post is conservative - nothing wrong with it either. Good to get perspective from all sides. |
| How you durrin? | |
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| Jeff | Jan 30 2010, 07:46 AM Post #20 |
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Senior Carp
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Yes, of course the NYDN is a liberal paper. If you want far-left viewpoints you pick up a copy of The Nation, or perhaps Socialist Worker, where you can get views like QE's. Here is a statement of a more conservative (and accurate) critique of the lunacy coming out of Holder (who should be fired Monday), from our friends at the NYPost: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/sheik_up_call_for_justice_joker_KmeEa652zJpZU735oZCQcP A sheik-up call for O's Justice joker Last Updated: 8:57 AM, January 30, 2010 Rich Lowry Homeland Security Secretary Janet Na politano must be relieved. Over the last few weeks, Attorney General Eric Holder has passed and lapped her in the race to be the most flagrantly incompetent Obama administration official in the War on Terror. Last year, Holder had a brainstorm: He'd remove Khalid Sheik Mohammed from Gitmo to try him in lower Manhattan, in the former shadow of the World Trade Center. Holder was thrilled by the "symbolism" of trying KSM so close to the scene of the crime. But, eventually, New York officials and members of Congress were bound to notice the barking-mad senselessness of the entire scheme. Now that they have, plans for Holder's trial of the century have collapsed in an unsightly heap in a matter of 24 hours. After Mayor Bloomberg reversed himself and came out against the trial last week, the administration said it was considering other sites but still wanted a civilian trial. Yesterday came word that it also is considering keeping KSM in Gitmo for a military commission after all, in what would be a crushing admission that its rush to shutter Gitmo was disastrously misconceived. KSM is an enemy combatant captured on the battlefield who deserves none of the protections of the civilian court system. The Bush administration set up a military commission system, endorsed by Congress and blessed by the Supreme Court, tailored precisely for these cases. It gave unprecedented due-process protections to detainees while protecting national security information from disclosure. The trials would be safely held at Gitmo, a state-of-the-art facility designed for the purpose and a place where millions of innocent bystanders don't work and live. KSM told a military judge he was ready to confess and move on to the execution phase. Most people would consider that a neat conclusion to the matter, but not Eric Holder. He intervened to short-circuit that process and bring KSM and four other terrorists here for trials that would cost as much as $1 billion to secure and paint an even brighter target on the city. The Obama administration has an ideological reflex toward giving terrorists the legal rights of domestic criminal suspects and a political reflex toward rejecting all of George W. Bush's works. It couldn't bring itself to admit that Gitmo and the military commissions -- for all their flaws -- represent a reasonable response to the hellish problem of dealing with an unreasonable enemy. Instead, it marched straight into Holder's Folly and now is beating a pell-mell retreat. Edited by Jeff, Jan 30 2010, 07:48 AM.
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| JBryan | Jan 30 2010, 07:57 AM Post #21 |
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I am the grey one
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When Holder came out and said in effect, "Yeah, he'll get the death penalty in the end" he moved the process from fair trial to show trial. That can't be a good thing for our court system. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jan 30 2010, 08:43 AM Post #22 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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We're gonna give him a fair trial, then we're gonna hang him. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Frank_W | Jan 30 2010, 08:46 AM Post #23 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Personally, I'd rather bury him up to his neck in the yard, and then run over him with the riding mower. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Jeff | Jan 30 2010, 09:07 AM Post #24 |
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Senior Carp
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The policy seems to have been motivated by a desire for fame and glory in the Justice Dept, ("I was the lawyer who put KSM away!!") rather than any actual rational policy analysis. It is not just hyper-liberal ideology, a lust for fame and glory and power also seems to have played a role here. |
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| Jeff | Jan 30 2010, 09:28 AM Post #25 |
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Senior Carp
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No - he should be kept locked up at Gitmo in case he has information that could save American lives in the future. The Gitmo strategy was the least bad option and should be continued. |
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