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Since Some of You Have Been Advocating This ...
Topic Started: Jan 25 2010, 06:11 PM (1,052 Views)
QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
lb1
Jan 26 2010, 05:46 AM
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 05:33 AM
Improviso
Jan 26 2010, 05:28 AM
Obie was against a spending freeze before he was for it.

While trying to get elected, he thought it was a bad idea. Now, to bolster public opinion, he's for it. Typical. :doh:
Or, maybe, he's changed his mind in light of economic conditions polling results.

Nah, that couldn't be it.

You guys have been SCREAMING at the top of your lungs that he needs to control spending. Several people here have called for a freeze, or across-the-board cuts. So, he does just that. And then you have the balls to criticize him for doing it?

Typical.
FIFY

lb
Again, do you think he should do this, or not?

Criticizing him for doing what you think he should be doing, because you are suspicious of WHY he is doing it, is just a little schizophrenic.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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lb1
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Fulla-Carp
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 05:48 AM


Again, do you think he should do this, or not?

Criticizing him for doing what you think he should be doing, because you are suspicious of WHY he is doing it, is just a little schizophrenic.
Who is criticizing, I am just pointing out facts. And to answer your question, no he shouldn't be doing it. Freezing discretionary spending is just a banner waving stunt and won't make a dimes worth of difference in the whole scheme of things.

lb
My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
I'm a member of a Cabal! Cool!

You're getting the title wrong, Quirt. It's the Coalition of Orthodox Christian Conservatives.

Like I said, I'm glad he's doing it, and I will give him a point for it. That doesn't change the fact that this was yet another point from his campaign that he's backtracked on. It's just another area that he attacked McCain on, and now as President, has backtracked and adopted the same or similar policy. Those things that he has stuck to his guns on haven't worked out so well.

The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
lb1
Jan 26 2010, 05:55 AM
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 05:48 AM


Again, do you think he should do this, or not?

Criticizing him for doing what you think he should be doing, because you are suspicious of WHY he is doing it, is just a little schizophrenic.
Who is criticizing, I am just pointing out facts. And to answer your question, no he shouldn't be doing it. Freezing discretionary spending is just a banner waving stunt and won't make a dimes worth of difference in the whole scheme of things.

lb
So, your view is that he shouldn't cut spending growth?

Interesting.

My own view is that we need to cut more. But it's a start.

Imagine you walk into the Superdome after the NFL Championship game, and the place is a mess. There's garbage everywhere. It's 50,000 seats, and you're one person. Where do you start?

The answer ... anywhere, but you have to start somewhere. Just pick somewhere, and get started. Do ten seats at a time. Carve out a block to do first.

If you don't start, you never achieve the objective.

This is a start. It may be a drop in the bucket, but you don't fill the bucket unless you start putting in drops.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Oh, and Improv? I'd vote for ya! I think you'd get 89'ths ballot too. Maybe PD's as well. I doubt you'd get Copper's though. He's a lib.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Luke's Dad
Jan 26 2010, 06:01 AM
I'm a member of a Cabal! Cool!

You're getting the title wrong, Quirt. It's the Coalition of Orthodox Christian Conservatives.

Like I said, I'm glad he's doing it, and I will give him a point for it. That doesn't change the fact that this was yet another point from his campaign that he's backtracked on. It's just another area that he attacked McCain on, and now as President, has backtracked and adopted the same or similar policy. Those things that he has stuck to his guns on haven't worked out so well.

And as I said, conditions are different than what was expected. When things change, and conditions are not what you expected them to be, you have to have the flexibility to adjust in response.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 06:02 AM
This is a start. It may be a drop in the bucket, but you don't fill the bucket unless you start putting in drops.
Agreed.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 06:03 AM
Luke's Dad
Jan 26 2010, 06:01 AM
I'm a member of a Cabal! Cool!

You're getting the title wrong, Quirt. It's the Coalition of Orthodox Christian Conservatives.

Like I said, I'm glad he's doing it, and I will give him a point for it. That doesn't change the fact that this was yet another point from his campaign that he's backtracked on. It's just another area that he attacked McCain on, and now as President, has backtracked and adopted the same or similar policy. Those things that he has stuck to his guns on haven't worked out so well.

And as I said, conditions are different than what was expected. When things change, and conditions are not what you expected them to be, you have to have the flexibility to adjust in response.
What's changed? A bad economy? The terrorist situation? Massive deficits? Crippling unemployment? Massive Bailouts? All of these things were present (or at least an undeniable certainty in regards to unemployment and the bailouts) during the debates in September and October of 08.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
If I thought he would do more than this "drop" I might feel better about it. If I thought he was doing this more out of principle than because the election of Scott Brown has made him hear footsteps I might feel better about it. Perhaps he will make me feel better about it when it gets down to details but his proposal is to freeze aggragate spending (some programs can still increase) and does not touch the entitlements, the stimulus or health care reform. Let us hope he can come up with more than the 150 million in savings his last budget cutting gesture achieved. I will give him this; GWB never proposed to freeze spending or cut it in any serious manner. Was GWB less fiscally responsible or Obama more of a politician. Time will tell.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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lb1
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Fulla-Carp
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 06:02 AM





Imagine you walk into the Superdome after the NFL Championship game, and the place is a mess. There's garbage everywhere. It's 50,000 seats, and you're one person. Where do you start?

The answer ... anywhere, but you have to start somewhere. Just pick somewhere, and get started. Do ten seats at a time. Carve out a block to do first.

If you are suggesting that this would be a good job for Obie, I agree with you.

lb
My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Luke's Dad
Jan 26 2010, 06:10 AM
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 06:03 AM
Luke's Dad
Jan 26 2010, 06:01 AM
I'm a member of a Cabal! Cool!

You're getting the title wrong, Quirt. It's the Coalition of Orthodox Christian Conservatives.

Like I said, I'm glad he's doing it, and I will give him a point for it. That doesn't change the fact that this was yet another point from his campaign that he's backtracked on. It's just another area that he attacked McCain on, and now as President, has backtracked and adopted the same or similar policy. Those things that he has stuck to his guns on haven't worked out so well.

And as I said, conditions are different than what was expected. When things change, and conditions are not what you expected them to be, you have to have the flexibility to adjust in response.
What's changed? A bad economy? The terrorist situation? Massive deficits? Crippling unemployment? Massive Bailouts? All of these things were present (or at least an undeniable certainty in regards to unemployment and the bailouts) during the debates in September and October of 08.
What's changed is the depths to which the economy has sunk. I don't think Obama expected there wouldn't be a turnaround. Particularly when viewed against the backdrop of the time he made the statements, not the date of the election or the inauguration.

I think that's what's changed, from his perception. The economy is not in the shape he expected it to be in.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 05:48 AM
Criticizing him for doing what you think he should be doing, because you are suspicious of WHY he is doing it, is just a little schizophrenic.
Au contraire. It goes to motive. He was against it on the campaign trail but now he's for it when he discovers that public sentiment thinks spending needs to be curbed. It goes to core values. And it doesn't appear to me that curbing spending is a core value for him. It says to me that his core values fly in whichever direction the wind is blowing at the time. Say what you will about GWB, but the man held firm on his core convictions.

While I haven't weighed in on this particular situation, in general I favor less government spending. Before a politician comes to me and asks for more tax money, they better show me that they have squeezed every last ounce of $hit out of the buffalo nickel. Otherwise... talk to the hand.

I'd take Obie's spending freeze a little more seriously if he had proposed it prior to last Tuesday. Today, it appears to be pandering to public opinion.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 06:02 AM
lb1
Jan 26 2010, 05:55 AM
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 05:48 AM


Again, do you think he should do this, or not?

Criticizing him for doing what you think he should be doing, because you are suspicious of WHY he is doing it, is just a little schizophrenic.
Who is criticizing, I am just pointing out facts. And to answer your question, no he shouldn't be doing it. Freezing discretionary spending is just a banner waving stunt and won't make a dimes worth of difference in the whole scheme of things.

lb
So, your view is that he shouldn't cut spending growth?

Interesting.

My own view is that we need to cut more. But it's a start.

Imagine you walk into the Superdome after the NFL Championship game, and the place is a mess. There's garbage everywhere. It's 50,000 seats, and you're one person. Where do you start?

The answer ... anywhere, but you have to start somewhere. Just pick somewhere, and get started. Do ten seats at a time. Carve out a block to do first.

If you don't start, you never achieve the objective.

This is a start. It may be a drop in the bucket, but you don't fill the bucket unless you start putting in drops.
The question is does he want to fill the bucket or just to be seen as trying to fill the bucket? There is reason enough to mistrust his sincerity without condemning the act.

Only time will tell, but the timing is awfully coincidental if it was in his plan already.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Improviso
Jan 26 2010, 06:35 AM
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 05:48 AM
Criticizing him for doing what you think he should be doing, because you are suspicious of WHY he is doing it, is just a little schizophrenic.
Au contraire. It goes to motive. He was against it on the campaign trail but now he's for it when he discovers that public sentiment thinks spending needs to be curbed. It goes to core values. And it doesn't appear to me that curbing spending is a core value for him. It says to me that his core values fly in whichever direction the wind is blowing at the time. Say what you will about GWB, but the man held firm on his core convictions.

While I haven't weighed in on this particular situation, in general I favor less government spending. Before a politician comes to me and asks for more tax money, they better show me that they have squeezed every last ounce of $hit out of the buffalo nickel. Otherwise... talk to the hand.

I'd take Obie's spending freeze a little more seriously if he had proposed it prior to last Tuesday. Today, it appears to be pandering to public opinion.
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.…"
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Copper
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Shortstop
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 05:33 AM

You guys have been SCREAMING at the top of your lungs that he needs to control spending. Several people here have called for a freeze, or across-the-board cuts. So, he does just that. And then you have the balls to criticize him for doing it?

Typical.

Yes things are different.

And now we should be reducing spending - dramatically.

So let's start screaming for that now and Mr. Obama may catch up (typically) in a year or two.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
He'll get a :thumb: from me if he can get back the money from the Million Dollar Pelosi Junket to Copenhagen.

Now there's some wasteful spending. Too bad they didn't issue her a one way ticket. :D
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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Luke's Dad
Member Avatar
Emperor Pengin
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 06:31 AM
Luke's Dad
Jan 26 2010, 06:10 AM
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 06:03 AM
Luke's Dad
Jan 26 2010, 06:01 AM
I'm a member of a Cabal! Cool!

You're getting the title wrong, Quirt. It's the Coalition of Orthodox Christian Conservatives.

Like I said, I'm glad he's doing it, and I will give him a point for it. That doesn't change the fact that this was yet another point from his campaign that he's backtracked on. It's just another area that he attacked McCain on, and now as President, has backtracked and adopted the same or similar policy. Those things that he has stuck to his guns on haven't worked out so well.

And as I said, conditions are different than what was expected. When things change, and conditions are not what you expected them to be, you have to have the flexibility to adjust in response.
What's changed? A bad economy? The terrorist situation? Massive deficits? Crippling unemployment? Massive Bailouts? All of these things were present (or at least an undeniable certainty in regards to unemployment and the bailouts) during the debates in September and October of 08.
What's changed is the depths to which the economy has sunk. I don't think Obama expected there wouldn't be a turnaround. Particularly when viewed against the backdrop of the time he made the statements, not the date of the election or the inauguration.

I think that's what's changed, from his perception. The economy is not in the shape he expected it to be in.
I thought we were already in recovery? That's the POV that's been pushed by the admistration as well as the press...

If Obama had expected or thought the situation would be much better by now, then that makes it all the worse on him. Now we're not talking about dishonest campaigning, we're talking about incompetency. Last September and October we were in a big pit, and dropping fast. While there was room for legitimate debate about what steps to take in coming out of it, it was pretty commonly understood that this was going to take years to climb back out of it. If Obama honestly thought the steps taken so far would have had us further along the road of recovery, then he had an initial poor understanding of the problems we faced. That's dangerous, and casts worrisome doubts about his judgement.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
It's a start, and he deserves some credit for it.

But...it's just a start...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Jolly
Jan 26 2010, 07:10 AM
It's a start, and he deserves some credit for it.

But...it's just a start...
+1
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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QuantumIvory
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Senior Carp
As the WaPo reports: "...the freeze would shave no more than $15 billion off next year's budget -- barely denting a deficit projected to exceed $1 trillion for the third year in a row..."

It's clearly political lip service. It's way too little, and it's way too late.
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck

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brenda
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..............
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 07:28 AM
Jolly
Jan 26 2010, 07:10 AM
It's a start, and he deserves some credit for it.

But...it's just a start...
+1
Oh sure, Quirt, you give Jolly a +1, but my post , which was very similar and made much earlier in this thread, doesn't get a +1 or even a reply. Admit it, you and Jolly are big buddies and you're just not telling us about it. :hat:

“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Politics are deep and devious at TNCR. :shifty:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
brenda
Jan 26 2010, 09:15 AM
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 07:28 AM
Jolly
Jan 26 2010, 07:10 AM
It's a start, and he deserves some credit for it.

But...it's just a start...
+1
Oh sure, Quirt, you give Jolly a +1, but my post , which was very similar and made much earlier in this thread, doesn't get a +1 or even a reply. Admit it, you and Jolly are big buddies and you're just not telling us about it. :hat:

I have all kinds of witty responses. Unfortunately, they would get me hurt.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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brenda
Member Avatar
..............
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 09:55 AM
brenda
Jan 26 2010, 09:15 AM
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 07:28 AM
Jolly
Jan 26 2010, 07:10 AM
It's a start, and he deserves some credit for it.

But...it's just a start...
+1
Oh sure, Quirt, you give Jolly a +1, but my post , which was very similar and made much earlier in this thread, doesn't get a +1 or even a reply. Admit it, you and Jolly are big buddies and you're just not telling us about it. :hat:

I have all kinds of witty responses. Unfortunately, they would get me hurt.
But who would hurt you, Quirt? Certainly not me. I am a sweet, mild-mannered, middle-aged, short, kind, and motherly gal. I bake cookies.

So you're afraid of Jolly?
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
brenda
Jan 26 2010, 10:11 AM
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 09:55 AM
brenda
Jan 26 2010, 09:15 AM
QuirtEvans
Jan 26 2010, 07:28 AM
Jolly
Jan 26 2010, 07:10 AM
It's a start, and he deserves some credit for it.

But...it's just a start...
+1
Oh sure, Quirt, you give Jolly a +1, but my post , which was very similar and made much earlier in this thread, doesn't get a +1 or even a reply. Admit it, you and Jolly are big buddies and you're just not telling us about it. :hat:

I have all kinds of witty responses. Unfortunately, they would get me hurt.
But who would hurt you, Quirt? Certainly not me. I am a sweet, mild-mannered, middle-aged, short, kind, and motherly gal. I bake cookies.

So you're afraid of Jolly?
I am far more afraid of the women on this board.

'Nuf said.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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