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Happy Anniversary, Mr. President
Topic Started: Jan 22 2010, 09:31 AM (743 Views)
George K
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Finally
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President Barack Obama signs a series of executive orders, Jan. 22, 2009, pertaining to the Guantanamo Bay detention camp in Cuba, as retired generals and admirals look on in the Oval Office of the White House. Obama ordered the closure of the camp and banned the use of controversial CIA interrogation techniques.

From the New York Times: Detainees Will Still Be Held, but Not Tried, Official Says
Quote:
 
The Obama administration has decided to continue to imprison without trials nearly 50 detainees at the Guantánamo Bay military prison in Cuba because a high-level task force has concluded that they are too difficult to prosecute but too dangerous to release, an administration official said on Thursday
Imagine that: "Too dangerous to release."

From the Washington Post: Justice task force recommends about 50 Guantanamo detainees be held indefinitely
Quote:
 
A Justice Department-led task force has concluded that nearly 50 of the 196 detainees at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, should be held indefinitely without trial under the laws of war, according to Obama administration officials.

Imagine that: "Under laws of war."
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
That's the Obama administration shredding the US Constitution, again.
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
Isn't the Lincoln bedroom unoccupied? A couple of them could bunk there. You know... have a pajama party or something.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
I say let them go stay with Ax. That way he can ensure they get their Constitutional rights.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
Damn, the terrorists have ALL the fun.

Coddle me Ax... I have needs too.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I'd never noticed he was left-handed before. All the best people are, of course.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
I be Strokin' :D
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I agree. Burkaa party at Ax's!!! Break out the beer and pork rinds!!!

Oh, wait...
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
Jan 22 2010, 09:33 AM
That's the Obama administration shredding the US Constitution, again.
OK, it turns out that even though the task force has recommended, among other things, "indefinite detention without trial" for some prisoners, Obama has not accepted any of the recommendations. So my statement, as it applies to this matter, is premature. If and when Obama accepts the "indefinite detention without trial" recommendation, my statement applies.

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Jeff
Senior Carp
Bump.

So what is special about a civilian trial for KSM?
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
:lol:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
Frank_W
Jan 31 2010, 10:57 AM
Posted Image
:lol:

The secret message was: Be sure to drink your Koolaid. :lol:

Damn! A stinkin' political message.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
If they are too dangerous to release, prove it. Write a law that creates a standard for indefinite imprisonment, and then stand up in court and prove that the standard has been met.

You don't get to hold people forever, just because you'd rather. Not only is it wrong and inhumane to lock them up for life because you don't think you can try them, it also creates more terrorists.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Improviso
Jan 31 2010, 11:28 AM
Frank_W
Jan 31 2010, 10:57 AM
Posted Image
:lol:

The secret message was: Be sure to drink your Koolaid. :lol:

Damn! A stinkin' political message.
:lol2: :lol2:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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George K
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Finally
Such a law exists, doesn't it? The Geneva Convention provides for indefinite internment of combatants, particularly unlawful ones. Until hostilities are ended, at least. And as of December 25, 2009, they hadn't.

I'd like to know by what standard some are being tried and others not.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Copper
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Shortstop
George K
Jan 31 2010, 11:41 AM

I'd like to know by what standard some are being tried and others not.

It would seem that Mr. Obama is using the Bush standard.

But I know that can't be right.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
George K
Jan 31 2010, 11:41 AM
Such a law exists, doesn't it? The Geneva Convention provides for indefinite internment of combatants, particularly unlawful ones. Until hostilities are ended, at least. And as of December 25, 2009, they hadn't.

I'd like to know by what standard some are being tried and others not.
I'd like to, too.

The Republicans have said, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, the Geneva Conventions didn't anticipate this sort of war. If you'd like to live by the Geneva Conventions, then live by ALL of them.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
I think the Geneva Convention was written when we were fighting massive conventional wars. There's nothing that deals with unconventional/guerrilla warfare, and there needs to be an addendum or some kind of new agreement drawn up. The Geneva Convention is inadequate, IMO, to meet the kinds of challenges and threats that the civilized world is dealing with, now that the Cold War has ended.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I think unfortunately it is going to have to be incredibly painful for those among whom guerillas are allowed to hide.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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lb1
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Fulla-Carp
Frank_W
Jan 31 2010, 01:16 PM
I think the Geneva Convention was written when we were fighting massive conventional wars. There's nothing that deals with unconventional/guerrilla warfare, and there needs to be an addendum or some kind of new agreement drawn up. The Geneva Convention is inadequate, IMO, to meet the kinds of challenges and threats that the civilized world is dealing with, now that the Cold War has ended.
FIFY

When the original was drawn up it was a different world, they liberal pacifist we have now would turn the terrorist loose and reward them.

lb
My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Well, I can't address that. I have no real context. I would certainly hope that terrorists are not released back into the general population of our nation or any other, but this is definitely one of the things that hopefully, a new agreement would address.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuirtEvans
Jan 31 2010, 12:44 PM

The Republicans have said, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, the Geneva Conventions didn't anticipate this sort of war. If you'd like to live by the Geneva Conventions, then live by ALL of them.
It is misleading to state that the Republicans have said the GC didn't anticipate this sort of war. Unlawful enemy combatant is not a new phenomenon -- there have long been mercenaries, guerrilla fighters, and franc-tireurs that have been explicitly excluded from the international agreements of lawful war, such as the Hague Conference of 1899 and the Martens Clause, but have been argued for basic human rights (such as not summary execution).

The category of "unlawful enemy combatant" is already covered under other internationally recognized rulings such as the Celebici Judgment. The authority to detain has already been granted by Congress to the President in the Military Commissions Act of 2006. Given that there is no requirement that the signatories to the Geneva Convention apply the terms of the treaty liberally to categories such as unlawful enemy combatant which are explicitly excluded, the US is under no ethical or moral onus to do anything but hold these captives in humane conditions.

So as far as is known, we are applying all the agreements of the Convention and the standards of international law. You haven't argued that we aren't, have you?

The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuantumIvory
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Senior Carp
Quirt
 
You don't get to hold people forever, just because you'd rather. Not only is it wrong and inhumane to lock them up for life because you don't think you can try them, it also creates more terrorists.

It also creates more terrorists? Tell me you're not serious.

Also, any idea how many of the detainees that have already been released have gone back to the battlefield?
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
He's serious, QI. He might not have a shred of evidence that what he said is true, but he is serious.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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