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I don't plan on voting Repub or Dem any more; But I WILL vote
Topic Started: Jan 3 2010, 12:20 AM (654 Views)
Big John
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Senior Carp
Pass it on.

Washington has turned into an orgy of impotence on both sides of the aisle.






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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
The problem John ultimately falls back on you and me.

Until we start judging and electing our officials on their *what's good for the country* decisions rather than on *what's good for the folks back home*, it won't change. Pork is strangling the heart of this country.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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lb1
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Fulla-Carp
Improviso
Jan 3 2010, 07:49 AM
The problem John ultimately falls back on you and me.

Until we start judging and electing our officials on their *what's good for the country party* decisions rather than on *what's good for the folks back home*, it won't change. Pork is strangling the heart of this country.
FIFY
My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09
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QuantumIvory
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Big John
Jan 3 2010, 12:20 AM
Pass it on.

Washington has turned into an orgy of impotence on both sides of the aisle.

The question remains, however, what party(ies) will you be voting for?
(Not that I don't agree with your last sentence, BTW.)
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck

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VPG
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Pisa-Carp
QuantumIvory
Jan 3 2010, 10:15 AM
Big John
Jan 3 2010, 12:20 AM
Pass it on.

Washington has turned into an orgy of impotence on both sides of the aisle.

The question remains, however, what party(ies) will you be voting for?
(Not that I don't agree with your last sentence, BTW.)
I think the answer is vote for the one not in office regardless of party.
If niether is seated, flip a coin.
I know this would be too much to ask for but I would like to see at least one third of each house unseated every election.
I'M NOT YELLING.........I'M ITALIAN...........THAT'S HOW WE TALK!


"People say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look."
Ronald Reagan, Inaugural, 1971

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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
Term limits. Governing should not be a lifetime occupation.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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QuantumIvory
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Improviso
Jan 3 2010, 10:29 AM
Term limits. Governing should not be a lifetime occupation.
Possibly. Here is an interesting piece from the Washington Examiner on just that. (The reference to "rotation in office" during colonial days is particular noteworthy.)

No, Term Limits is not a Fools Errand
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck

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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
"As long as members have the chance to spend their lives in Washington, their interests will always skew toward spending taxpayer dollars to buy off special interests, covering over corruption in the bureaucracy, fundraising, relationship-building among lobbyists, and trading favors for pork – in short, amassing their own power.

Sounds like the current problem in a nutshell.

I know folks say that having inexperienced people in Washington would cause gridlock. But is that any different than what we have now?
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
We do not have a democracy since both sides have sold out.
Follow the money.

Both sides have been reduced to two images of BS feel-good crap.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Vote Libertarian!

Freedom is so sweet!
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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QuantumIvory
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Improviso
Jan 3 2010, 10:45 AM
Quote:
 
"As long as members have the chance to spend their lives in Washington, their interests will always skew toward spending taxpayer dollars to buy off special interests, covering over corruption in the bureaucracy, fundraising, relationship-building among lobbyists, and trading favors for pork – in short, amassing their own power.

Sounds like the current problem in a nutshell.

I know folks say that having inexperienced people in Washington would cause gridlock. But is that any different than what we have now?
A third of the Senate is elected every two years, so experience shouldn't be an issue there. And even though the entire House is up for election every two years; with defeats, resignations, decisions to only run for one or two terms, deaths, etc., we should have a good mix of "seasoned" and "inexperienced" members.

I've vacillated on the question, but maybe the time has come for term limits.
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck

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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Any 3rd party, if it catches on, will turn to sh!t too.

It won't catch on though.
We are too stupid to think beyond us and them.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Improviso
Jan 3 2010, 10:45 AM
Quote:
 
"As long as members have the chance to spend their lives in Washington, their interests will always skew toward spending taxpayer dollars to buy off special interests, covering over corruption in the bureaucracy, fundraising, relationship-building among lobbyists, and trading favors for pork – in short, amassing their own power.

Sounds like the current problem in a nutshell.

I know folks say that having inexperienced people in Washington would cause gridlock. But is that any different than what we have now?
Best line I ever heard about term limits ... it's like a serial killer sending a note to the police saying "Stop me before I vote again".

You don't need term limits if voters don't want to vote for experienced candidates.

Why exactly is it that voters need the enforced discipline of term limits to override their candidate of choice?
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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QuantumIvory
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Mark
Jan 3 2010, 11:07 AM
Vote Libertarian!

Freedom is so sweet!
How about merging the Libertarian Party and Tea Party. They could call themselves "The Libertea Party". :leaving:
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck

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QuantumIvory
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Quirt
 
Why exactly is it that voters need the enforced discipline of term limits to override their candidate of choice?

Why don't we let Ben Franklin answer that: "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck

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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
QuirtEvans
Jan 3 2010, 11:19 AM
Why exactly is it that voters need the enforced discipline of term limits to override their candidate of choice?
Judging from the opinion polls regarding Congress, as a body... they suck.

But ask those same people their opinion of THEIR congress critter and they'll tell you he/she is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Why? Because they bring home the bacon to the detriment of others.

Hell of a way to run a country.

Why the need for enforced discipline? Probably the same reason DC needs a nickel penalty fee on plastic bags.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuirtEvans
Jan 3 2010, 11:19 AM
Why exactly is it that voters need the enforced discipline of term limits to override their candidate of choice?
Because of party politics.

Without term limits the incumbent and the political machine that supports the incumbent will edge out any contenders.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Improviso
Jan 3 2010, 11:54 AM
QuirtEvans
Jan 3 2010, 11:19 AM
Why exactly is it that voters need the enforced discipline of term limits to override their candidate of choice?
Judging from the opinion polls regarding Congress, as a body... they suck.

But ask those same people their opinion of THEIR congress critter and they'll tell you he/she is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Why? Because they bring home the bacon to the detriment of others.

Hell of a way to run a country.

Why the need for enforced discipline? Probably the same reason DC needs a nickel penalty fee on plastic bags.
That's really a different thing. That's more about a particular behavior causing a particular problem, and having a penalty on that individual behavior in order to eliminate the problem. You can still get a plastic bag, it'll just cost you a nickel.

Term limits don't leave you the option. Moreover, I'm not convinced that pork and self-interest would be any less with short-term representatives.

It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
The bigger issue is that Federally imposed terms limits would be presumably unconstitutional, since it is a power of the state to decide how to elect their congressmen (subject to the 17th amendment). The only Constitutional limitations regard age and residency. It would take a Constitutional amendment to mandate term limits upon the States.

Good luck with that.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
kenny
Jan 3 2010, 11:14 AM
Any 3rd party, if it catches on, will turn to sh!t too.

It won't catch on though.
We are too stupid to think beyond us and them.
Tell that to the Whigs.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Big John
Jan 3 2010, 12:20 AM
Pass it on.

Washington has turned into an orgy of impotence on both sides of the aisle.

I don't know if impotence is the right word. They're screwing 300 milllion of us a mile a minute.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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QuantumIvory
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ivorythumper
Jan 3 2010, 12:39 PM
The bigger issue is that Federally imposed terms limits would be presumably unconstitutional, since it is a power of the state to decide how to elect their congressmen (subject to the 17th amendment). The only Constitutional limitations regard age and residency. It would take a Constitutional amendment to mandate term limits upon the States.

Good luck with that.
The Supreme Court in 1995 ruled (stupidly) that even the states don't have the authority to limit a congressman's term. But, you're right, it would still require a constitutional amendment. It would be interesting to see a poll on the issue. (Of voters, not congressmen.)
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck

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Copper
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Shortstop
jon-nyc
Jan 3 2010, 12:45 PM
kenny
Jan 3 2010, 11:14 AM
Any 3rd party, if it catches on, will turn to sh!t too.

It won't catch on though.
We are too stupid to think beyond us and them.
Tell that to the Whigs.

1992

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1992

Quote:
 
In June, Perot led the national public opinion polls with support from 39% of the voters (versus 31% for Bush and 25% for Clinton).


Quote:
 
Perot severely damaged his credibility by dropping out of the presidential contest in July and remaining out of the race for several weeks before re-entering. He compounded this damage by eventually claiming, without evidence, that his withdrawal was due to Republican operatives attempting to disrupt his daughter's wedding.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuantumIvory
Jan 3 2010, 12:56 PM
ivorythumper
Jan 3 2010, 12:39 PM
The bigger issue is that Federally imposed terms limits would be presumably unconstitutional, since it is a power of the state to decide how to elect their congressmen (subject to the 17th amendment). The only Constitutional limitations regard age and residency. It would take a Constitutional amendment to mandate term limits upon the States.

Good luck with that.
The Supreme Court in 1995 ruled (stupidly) that even the states don't have the authority to limit a congressman's term. But, you're right, it would still require a constitutional amendment. It would be interesting to see a poll on the issue. (Of voters, not congressmen.)
Do you know on what grounds SCOTUS determined that?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Copper
Jan 3 2010, 04:34 PM
that his withdrawal was due to Republican operatives attempting to disrupt his daughter's wedding.
I heard they infiltrated the caterer.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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