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This local story is now national news; neighborhood associations are ridiculous
Topic Started: Dec 3 2009, 10:34 AM (1,251 Views)
plays88keys
Pisa-Carp
This WWII Medal of Honor recipient is being told he can't fly an American flag from a flagpole in his own yard because it's against the rules of the neighborhood civic association.

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wtvr/T8CH018FERNTLC03J
You can never get enough of what you don't need to make you happy.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
I'd fly it, and tell the to go get screwed.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=190716948379&ref=search&sid=1419272102.3803658796..1&v=info#/group.php?v=wall&ref=search&gid=190716948379
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Larry
Dec 3 2009, 10:35 AM
I'd fly it, and tell the to go get screwed.

You'd get fined, you'd refuse to pay the fine, and then you'd have a lien placed on your property. If you ever wanted to sell, you'd have to clear the lien first.

Or you'd sue them, or they'd sue you. But, either way, you'd lose. Because you knew the rules before you moved in, even if you didn't pay attention.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
If Claude Ball moved in next door you'd wish you had an HOA.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Dec 3 2009, 10:35 AM
I'd fly it, and tell the to go get screwed.

I wouldn't move into a neighborhood with such un-American snotty a$$holes!

FIFY!
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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The 89th Key
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My condo association says you aren't allowed to fly any flags, except the American flag. That's the way it should be.

I'm with Larry. I'd fly it anyway and would fight the HOA as long as they'd want to put up a battle. Eventually they would lose and they know it. Yes, legally they have every right to make that rule and enforce it. And the public has every right to shine the PR light on their misguided ways until they change their rule...which would eventually happen.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
QuirtEvans
Dec 3 2009, 10:58 AM
Larry
Dec 3 2009, 10:35 AM
I'd fly it, and tell the to go get screwed.

You'd get fined, you'd refuse to pay the fine, and then you'd have a lien placed on your property. If you ever wanted to sell, you'd have to clear the lien first.

Or you'd sue them, or they'd sue you. But, either way, you'd lose. Because you knew the rules before you moved in, even if you didn't pay attention.
Having spent the bulk of this morning administering mine (we're transitioning between management companies), I have to agree with Quirt. It is Contracts 101. It can be inconvenient, but that is what you agreed to.

That said, I fly the flag each and every day. What it sounds like to me is he must want to erect a proper vertical flagpole. I guess I'd better read the link.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
The 89th Key
Dec 3 2009, 11:15 AM
My condo association says you aren't allowed to fly any flags, except the American flag. That's the way it should be.
Seriously?
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
HOA rules can always be changed by a majority of homeowners (ours requires 70%).
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Phlebas
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Bull-Carp
Aqua Letifer
Dec 3 2009, 11:16 AM
The 89th Key
Dec 3 2009, 11:15 AM
My condo association says you aren't allowed to fly any flags, except the American flag. That's the way it should be.
Seriously?
Yeah, didn't you see the thread where 89th said they he had to take his N.A.M.B.L.A. flag down?
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
OK, I read it. Sorry, but he is in the wrong. In a neighborhood with an HOA you simply cannot do whatever you want, no matter how noble the purpose or individual. His distinguished service helped preserve a system where you can enter into the contracts you want to with little interference. It did not make him immune to the conditions of the ones he entered.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
Dec 3 2009, 11:16 AM
QuirtEvans
Dec 3 2009, 10:58 AM
Larry
Dec 3 2009, 10:35 AM
I'd fly it, and tell the to go get screwed.

You'd get fined, you'd refuse to pay the fine, and then you'd have a lien placed on your property. If you ever wanted to sell, you'd have to clear the lien first.

Or you'd sue them, or they'd sue you. But, either way, you'd lose. Because you knew the rules before you moved in, even if you didn't pay attention.
Having spent the bulk of this morning administering mine (we're transitioning between management companies), I have to agree with Quirt. It is Contracts 101. It can be inconvenient, but that is what you agreed to.

That said, I fly the flag each and every day. What it sounds like to me is he must want to erect a proper vertical flagpole. I guess I'd better read the link.
The only thing that could tilt the equities, a LITTLE, is if the rule wasn't written that way when he bought the house. Then, his argument is reduced to, "Yeah, I knew they had the power to write rules, but I never dreamed they'd write or enforce such a dumbass rule!"

And he'd still lose, because he bought in knowing the by-laws, and the procedures for making new rules. But at least he'd get a bit more sympathy.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Kincaid
Dec 3 2009, 10:59 AM
If Claude Ball moved in next door you'd wish you had an HOA.
I'd prefer a tall fence, two pit bulls and a shotgun.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Same thing, Quirt. He would have bought into a system where he agreed on the method for establishing rules. He loses.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
Dec 3 2009, 11:20 AM
OK, I read it. Sorry, but he is in the wrong. In a neighborhood with an HOA you simply cannot do whatever you want, no matter how noble the purpose or individual. His distinguished service helped preserve a system where you can enter into the contracts you want to with little interference. It did not make him immune to the conditions of the ones he entered.
It's a stupid rule. He should be allowed to fly the American flag.

But they have the right to have, and to enforce, stupid rules. There is nothing in the Constitution or in federal (or to my knowledge) state law that says that homeowners associations can't have stupid rules.

As you say, Contracts 101. He didn't have to buy the house if he didn't want to be subject to their stupid rules.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
That is exactly why I refused to even look at any house encumbered by a HOA.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan
Dec 3 2009, 11:30 AM
That is exactly why I refused to even look at any house encumbered by a HOA.
+1

City "regulations", "inspections" and "codes" are bad enough.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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The 89th Key
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Phlebas
Dec 3 2009, 11:20 AM
Aqua Letifer
Dec 3 2009, 11:16 AM
The 89th Key
Dec 3 2009, 11:15 AM
My condo association says you aren't allowed to fly any flags, except the American flag. That's the way it should be.
Seriously?
Yeah, didn't you see the thread where 89th said they he had to take his N.A.M.B.L.A. flag down?
Yeah srsly wtf! NAMBLA 4EVR!

Seriously though...yes Aqua I'm serious. I absolutely think the condo association has the right and responsibility to somewhat limit what can be displayed from balconies, etc. However I think one thing that should always be allowed is the flying of the American flag.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
The 89th Key
Dec 3 2009, 11:42 AM
Seriously though...yes Aqua I'm serious. I absolutely think the condo association has the right and responsibility to somewhat limit what can be displayed from balconies, etc. However I think one thing that should always be allowed is the flying of the American flag.
Well the condo association can do what it wants of course. I wouldn't likely live in a place that had too many of those restrictions but people are free to choose what they want.

But it sounded like you were against any other kinds of flags being flown except American. I don't see the point of that since if you want to display a flag from another country, there's already a protocol in place for that sort of thing. I don't see why any further control would be needed.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
:lol2: Having rules is exactly why we wanted our neighborhood. We lived before in an area with 45 foot wide lots and got tired of many things our neighbors did, but mostly we were tired of things they didn't do.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
QuirtEvans
Dec 3 2009, 11:24 AM
Mikhailoh
Dec 3 2009, 11:20 AM
OK, I read it. Sorry, but he is in the wrong. In a neighborhood with an HOA you simply cannot do whatever you want, no matter how noble the purpose or individual. His distinguished service helped preserve a system where you can enter into the contracts you want to with little interference. It did not make him immune to the conditions of the ones he entered.
It's a stupid rule. He should be allowed to fly the American flag.

But they have the right to have, and to enforce, stupid rules. There is nothing in the Constitution or in federal (or to my knowledge) state law that says that homeowners associations can't have stupid rules.

As you say, Contracts 101. He didn't have to buy the house if he didn't want to be subject to their stupid rules.
He is allowed to fly the flag, just as I am. From an angled flagpole attached to the house. As is done from many other buildings across the country. He is simply too stubborn to compromise, so he installed a vertical flagpole as he wanted it.

What other rules should be suspended for him? No parking tickets? Speeding tickets? Does he get all the line cuts he wants? Sorry, the guy is just being stubborn.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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plays88keys
Pisa-Carp
Kincaid
Dec 3 2009, 10:59 AM
If Claude Ball moved in next door you'd wish you had an HOA.
Claude Ball couldn't afford my neighborhood.
You can never get enough of what you don't need to make you happy.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
You hope. Guys like Claude play the lottery you know.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Mark
Dec 3 2009, 11:39 AM
JBryan
Dec 3 2009, 11:30 AM
That is exactly why I refused to even look at any house encumbered by a HOA.
+1

City "regulations", "inspections" and "codes" are bad enough.
+2
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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