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Gingrich on how to create jobs; makes sense to me
Topic Started: Dec 3 2009, 07:48 AM (760 Views)
JBryan
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I am the grey one
Sounds like Ax favors something on the order of a great leap forward.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Red Rice
Dec 3 2009, 10:19 AM
Axtremus
Dec 3 2009, 09:46 AM
Newt Gingrich is wrong.

The most effective, most immediate way to create large number of jobs in this environment is to dramatically increase government spending on infrastructure programs...
Yes, that would create a large number of jobs.

But where would the money come from?

That's easy...

Posted Image
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Red Rice
Dec 3 2009, 10:19 AM
Axtremus
Dec 3 2009, 09:46 AM
Newt Gingrich is wrong.

The most effective, most immediate way to create large number of jobs in this environment is to dramatically increase government spending on infrastructure programs...
Yes, that would create a large number of jobs.

But where would the money come from?

We have dramatically underspent on infrastructure, over a period of DECADES.

However, there's no way to fix that in one fell swoop. The phrase "the cure is worse than the disease" comes to mind.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Half of the stuff Ax listed have nothing to do with infrastructure, and aren't even the government's job to do.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
Dec 3 2009, 09:46 AM
Newt Gingrich is wrong.

The most effective, most immediate way to create large number of jobs in this environment is to dramatically increase government spending on infrastructure programs.

* Upgrade the air traffic control system, nation wide -- we know we need it, so just do it.

* Upgrade electricity distribution grids, nation wide -- we know we need it, so just do it.

* Build new and/or renovate old school buildings

* Renovate government buildings, for functional and energy efficiencies

* Build / repair public roads, bridges, Interstate highways, levees, etc.

* Upgrade/expand all government IT systems; subsidize state, counties, cities, and townships' IT upgrade/expansion projects.

* Bring lots of broadband data links to suburban and rural areas, make every American home as well-connected as those in Seoul or Tokyo.

* Make massive public investments in high speed wireless networks, make the whole nation's wireless broadband coverage rival that of Seoul or Tokyo's.

* Massively expand public transportation systems (rail, subways, busses, trollies, etc.)

* Digitize all public domain literary works, make them all freely available to every one (no BS like Google trying to claim copyrights of their digitized versions of public domain works)

* Dramatically increase funding for basic research -- those that take 20+ years to see commercial applications, the type that has massive potentials but the private sector enterprises are too chicken and too short-sighted to underwrite

* Massively increase subsidies to states and cities and counties and townships and national parks, etc. -- so they don't have to lay off police and firefighters and rangers and librarians and curators and town clerks and administrative support staff, etc.
Quote to add:

* Fix / renew water distribution systems, sewage systems, and water treatment plants. These are things we don't see (and prefer not to see) everyday and townships have routinely underinvest in them in favor of more "visible" items, but the water & sewage systems are vitally important to sustain the quality of life as we know it.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Dec 3 2009, 10:25 AM
Red Rice
Dec 3 2009, 10:19 AM
Axtremus
Dec 3 2009, 09:46 AM
Newt Gingrich is wrong.

The most effective, most immediate way to create large number of jobs in this environment is to dramatically increase government spending on infrastructure programs...
Yes, that would create a large number of jobs.

But where would the money come from?

That's easy...

Posted Image
Bingo!

We print them.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Economic recovery.

Ur doin it wrong.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Printing unlimited amounts of it will destroy the currency.

Is that your goal AX? The destruction of the Federal Reserve Note?

Cool! Keep on printing them!
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o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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kluurs
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Fulla-Carp
Actually, there's a good chance that's what's going to happen - print money. The easiest way to get rid of debt is through inflation. Pay off with "cheaper" dollars. Of course, there's a price for that - but just sayin - a good chance we'll see that - not in the next year or so - but it just feels like that's what is being planned on.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Dec 3 2009, 10:06 AM
The problem with that approach is it is unsustainable. The businesses that arise from it will only be there so long as the government services are being purchased. It creates an unnatural marketplace. When you put money in the hands of people who will use it to create wealth for themselves by serving the real marketplace you will create lasting jobs.

My county refused the stimulus funds because they established programs that would still have to be paid for after the stimulus funds are gone. It is, I believe, the correct approach.
Yes, it is unsustainable over the long term. But such massive government spending surge are not meant to be "long term" anyway.

The "natural market place" is not functioning right now -- credit is still very constricted for every one except the very big financial institutions.

The economic and social damages of prolonged high employment are deeply damaging. So when the private market is not functioning, the government should step in to fill the gap and help restore the market.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Aqua Letifer
Dec 3 2009, 11:34 AM
Economic recovery.

Ur doin it wrong.
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
With what money, Ax? How do you pay for that when you are already in deficit spending?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

I don't know that Axtremus's suggestions will help create jobs, but putting in the infrastructure to take the country into the next 50 years is not an outrageous idea. Just look at the growth that's come out of the internet over the past 15 years. Putting in better infrastructure can only help expand on this. Most homes have a paltry internet connection still. Mobile data services are expanding, in some cases making people more productive. Think virtual offices, and working from home several days a week. Skype (with webcams) was unthinkable only 10 years ago.

I know there's all these unions out there to deal with, but I still think we should expand the rail system nationwide and get more trucks off the road. If the dollar is going to be in the dirt, we might as well prepare to start shipping all the goods we're going to be exporting.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Mark
Dec 3 2009, 11:36 AM
Printing unlimited amounts of it will destroy the currency.

Is that your goal AX? The destruction of the Federal Reserve Note?

Cool! Keep on printing them!
Spoken like a true hard currency man...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
If I did a hole in my yard and find a gold nugget do I have to pay income tax on that?

Based on what exactly?
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o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mark
Dec 3 2009, 01:22 PM
If I did a hole in my yard and find a gold nugget do I have to pay income tax on that?

Based on what exactly?
The definition of "income".
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Mark
Dec 3 2009, 01:22 PM
If I did a hole in my yard and find a gold nugget do I have to pay income tax on that?

Based on what exactly?

I think the tax would be based on its value.

Of course you don't know the real value until you sell it.

You could make a guess and pay the tax on that, then pay tax on the gain or loss when you sell it.

Be happy in your work.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Jeff
Senior Carp
Axtremus
Dec 3 2009, 11:31 AM
Axtremus
Dec 3 2009, 09:46 AM
Newt Gingrich is wrong.

The most effective, most immediate way to create large number of jobs in this environment is to dramatically increase government spending on infrastructure programs.

* Upgrade the air traffic control system, nation wide -- we know we need it, so just do it.

* Upgrade electricity distribution grids, nation wide -- we know we need it, so just do it.

* Build new and/or renovate old school buildings

* Renovate government buildings, for functional and energy efficiencies

* Build / repair public roads, bridges, Interstate highways, levees, etc.

* Upgrade/expand all government IT systems; subsidize state, counties, cities, and townships' IT upgrade/expansion projects.

* Bring lots of broadband data links to suburban and rural areas, make every American home as well-connected as those in Seoul or Tokyo.

* Make massive public investments in high speed wireless networks, make the whole nation's wireless broadband coverage rival that of Seoul or Tokyo's.

* Massively expand public transportation systems (rail, subways, busses, trollies, etc.)

* Digitize all public domain literary works, make them all freely available to every one (no BS like Google trying to claim copyrights of their digitized versions of public domain works)

* Dramatically increase funding for basic research -- those that take 20+ years to see commercial applications, the type that has massive potentials but the private sector enterprises are too chicken and too short-sighted to underwrite

* Massively increase subsidies to states and cities and counties and townships and national parks, etc. -- so they don't have to lay off police and firefighters and rangers and librarians and curators and town clerks and administrative support staff, etc.
Quote to add:

* Fix / renew water distribution systems, sewage systems, and water treatment plants. These are things we don't see (and prefer not to see) everyday and townships have routinely underinvest in them in favor of more "visible" items, but the water & sewage systems are vitally important to sustain the quality of life as we know it.
You forgot 1-200 nuclear power plants.

Of course, this is all theoretical. The actual 'stimulus' bill was only 10-15% investment, and 85% or so simply wealth transfer to politically connected Dem interest groups. So the Republicans only want to "cut spending" and ignore needed infrastructure investment (which increases a society's wealth by increasing the value of its common capital stock, contrary to the criticisms above). But the Democrats only want to transfer wealth from those who actually produce it to those who vote Democrat. :) (Had to get that one in there. :) )

Obama's rhetoric about infrastructure investment is correct in principle, but only serves as a cover for whatever confused wealth transfer bill is about to come out of Congress.
Edited by Jeff, Dec 3 2009, 03:00 PM.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Mikhailoh
Dec 3 2009, 07:48 AM
Quote:
 
Opinion: Obama Needs to Change Course on Jobs
By Newt Gingrich and Dan Varroney

(Dec. 2) -- President Obama is holding a jobs summit to address the crisis of nearly 16 million Americans without work, the highest unemployment rate in more than 26 years. And while he's invited more than 130 CEOs, academics, journalists and union leaders to share their views on the economy at the White House, at the end of the day the only opinion that will matter will be Obama's.

So the big question for the country is whether Obama will change course on the economy after the summit. Will he embrace a different set of job-creation policies than the failed government spending approach to economic recovery tried by both Obama and George W. Bush, which has increased our national debt by $2.9 trillion in less than two years?

Change? That's the only question that matters.

It might be a surprise to this White House team, but you don't have to be a celebrity CEO or hold a Ph.D. in economics to know how to create jobs. The many small-business owners who are members of American Solutions and who actually create jobs have given input and widespread support to the following three-step job-creation plan for the economy.

1. Reduce Spending and Replace Bad Government with Limited, Effective Government to Achieve a Balanced Budget

...

2. Enact Five Key Tax Reforms to Reward Job Creation, Entrepreneurship, Savings and Investment

...

3. Implement an American Energy Plan to Create American Jobs and Keep American Money at Home

...
Typical GOP, very specific about tax reductions. Spending cuts, no so much detail. In fact, none at all.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jeff
Senior Carp
JBryan
Dec 3 2009, 10:21 AM
Sounds like Ax favors something on the order of a great leap forward.
No. Ax's argument is excellent and correct. All the items above are a form of social investment which will likely increase the productivity and wealth generating ability of the whole society for a long time.

Ax's only error is in thinking that any bill actually coming out of Congress will actually do this. These investments do not buy enough Dem votes in the short term, unlike wealth transfers to unions, cash for clunkers, and other forms of confused spending. Like many growth investments, they will take time to pay off, and thus Congress critters do not have much reason to vote for them.
Edited by Jeff, Dec 3 2009, 03:16 PM.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Aqua Letifer
Dec 3 2009, 08:06 AM
Quote:
 
Elimination of the Death Tax. Inheritance is the most powerful accumulator of capital. Studies show that eliminating the death tax would create hundreds of thousands of new jobs.


The rest of the article makes sense to me but I have no idea how you go from inheriting money to creating new jobs.
Yeah, funny how the diagnosis changes from year to year but the prescription stays the same.


Remember during 2000, when we went from boom times and surplus to bust and recession? In the former, we needed to cut taxes beacause 'its the people's money'*. Then we needed to cut taxes because we needed to prime the pump.






*That it was also 'the peoples debt' that the surplus was paying down seemed to escape their notice.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jeff
Senior Carp
Mikhailoh
Dec 3 2009, 07:48 AM
journalists and union leaders
Inviting union leaders to a creating job summit is like inviting Bernie Madoff to a conference on accounting standards.

As for journalists, why not invite circus clowns? That would be just as useful and relevant.
Edited by Jeff, Dec 3 2009, 03:12 PM.
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Big John
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Senior Carp
Posted Image





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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Jeff
Dec 3 2009, 03:06 PM
JBryan
Dec 3 2009, 10:21 AM
Sounds like Ax favors something on the order of a great leap forward.
No. Ax's argument is excellent and correct. All the items above are a form of social investment which will likely increase the productivity and wealth generating ability of the whole society for a long time.

Ax's only error is in thinking that any bill actually coming out of Congress will actually do this. These investments do not buy enough Dem votes in the short term, unlike wealth transfers to unions, cash for clunkers, and other forms of confused spending. Like any growth investment, they will take time to pay off, and thus Congress critters do not have much reason to vote for them.
Ax's argument might begin to make sense if we had the money to spend on all these things. We don't. Of course, I am with those who don't believe the federal government should not be trying to do a lot of these things at all. You have demonstrated amply why.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
 
With what money, Ax? How do you pay for that when you are already in deficit spending?
JBryan
 
Ax's argument might begin to make sense if we had the money to spend on all these things. We don't.
We print the money.
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