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Sally Quinn on Sarah Palin's Rogue Christianity
Topic Started: Nov 18 2009, 07:53 AM (1,410 Views)
Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Axtremus
Nov 18 2009, 10:27 AM
Larry
Nov 18 2009, 10:24 AM
Uh... John... you do know the difference between Jewish Law and Christianity, right?...
It's that Christianity completes, upholds, or otherwise make Jewish Laws whole. Many Jews disagree.
I see you need to take a few courses in religion.....


Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Nov 18 2009, 10:27 AM
So Ax - you think that Jesus told people to collect swords as a hobby?

It's unspecified.

Could be for hobby, could be for ridding the world of swords by acquisition, could be as props to enact musicals, could be for gardening and tree bush sculpting, etc.

It may also be for killing, but that runs into conflict with the 'thou shalt not kill' commandment.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
It's unspecified.


Perhaps it was understood as a given - except in your case, obviously - that when one said "buy some shoes" they expected you to put them on your feet, and when someone said "buy a sword" they expected you to carry it and use it if necessary.


Quote:
 
Could be for hobby, could be for ridding the world of swords by acquisition, could be as props to enact musicals, could be for gardening and tree bush sculpting, etc.


Man, when ignorance is given free rein, it just runs like water, doesn't it...


Quote:
 
It may also be for killing, but that runs into conflict with the 'thou shalt not kill' commandment.


Like I said - I see you need to take a few courses in religion....

First though, I'd recommend you learn the difference between the words "offense" and "defense".

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Larry
Nov 18 2009, 10:24 AM
Uh... John... you do know the difference between Jewish Law and Christianity, right?...
Mark didn't specify that I had to stick with the New Testament, he just said The Bible.

I'm just having a laugh, incidentally. It does however demonstrate that it's pretty easy to justify anything you like quoting Scripture as soon as you remove the goggles of common sense and put on the spectacles of literalistic idiocy. People who read the Bible as literal and simplistic truth are barking up the wrong tree entirely, IMHO - obviously there's a lot of good stuff in there as well, even for a worthless heathen such as myself.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Axtremus
Nov 18 2009, 10:27 AM
Larry
Nov 18 2009, 10:24 AM
Uh... John... you do know the difference between Jewish Law and Christianity, right?...
It's claimed that Christianity completes, upholds, or otherwise make Jewish Laws whole. Many Jews disagree.
Most Christians wouldn't.

Next shocker: Jews and Christians do not agree that Jesus is the Messiah! Film at eleven!
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
John D'Oh
Nov 18 2009, 10:44 AM
Larry
Nov 18 2009, 10:24 AM
Uh... John... you do know the difference between Jewish Law and Christianity, right?...
Mark didn't specify that I had to stick with the New Testament, he just said The Bible.

I'm just having a laugh, incidentally. It does however demonstrate that it's pretty easy to justify anything you like quoting Scripture as soon as you remove the goggles of common sense and put on the spectacles of literalistic idiocy. People who read the Bible as literal and simplistic truth are barking up the wrong tree entirely, IMHO - obviously there's a lot of good stuff in there as well, even for a worthless heathen such as myself.
I think you can take it literally and still find meaning.

But you must take Biblical passages in context, and as part of an overall message. There are many parts of the Bible with two meanings or more. Sometimes, the more you know, the more meaning you find.

But...don't get caught up in minutae, and miss the big picture...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Nov 18 2009, 10:44 AM
Larry
Nov 18 2009, 10:24 AM
Uh... John... you do know the difference between Jewish Law and Christianity, right?...
Mark didn't specify that I had to stick with the New Testament, he just said The Bible.

I'm just having a laugh, incidentally. It does however demonstrate that it's pretty easy to justify anything you like quoting Scripture as soon as you remove the goggles of common sense and put on the spectacles of literalistic idiocy. People who read the Bible as literal and simplistic truth are barking up the wrong tree entirely, IMHO - obviously there's a lot of good stuff in there as well, even for a worthless heathen such as myself.
No I didn't, but you failed to produce anything about what I requested.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mark
Nov 18 2009, 11:24 AM
John D'Oh
Nov 18 2009, 10:44 AM
Larry
Nov 18 2009, 10:24 AM
Uh... John... you do know the difference between Jewish Law and Christianity, right?...
Mark didn't specify that I had to stick with the New Testament, he just said The Bible.

I'm just having a laugh, incidentally. It does however demonstrate that it's pretty easy to justify anything you like quoting Scripture as soon as you remove the goggles of common sense and put on the spectacles of literalistic idiocy. People who read the Bible as literal and simplistic truth are barking up the wrong tree entirely, IMHO - obviously there's a lot of good stuff in there as well, even for a worthless heathen such as myself.
No I didn't, but you failed to produce anything about what I requested.
OK,

Quote:
 
Epistles 10: And at that time, the Lord sayeth unto me, build thee a large House, and paint it white, so that men will know who ruleth them, and thou shalt pay a tax of 20 parts of all that thee earn, and upon that payment thou shalt maketh a payment of 8 more parts, unless thee abideth in New Hampshire, and of the first part though shalt see nought, but there will be a great grinding of bone, and a gnashing of teeth, and the sun will rise so that thee sees that all around thee are nought but the shadow of despair, unless thou be he that they call Obama, and thou shalt like it or thou can lump it.



Jesus did, in fact, acknowledge that people should pay their taxes to the Roman State. 'Render unto Caesar....' etc. and I think you'd find that what the Jews were suffering under the Roman yolk was an awful lot closer to slavery than where the American obsession with large houses and HD televisions paid for with money they don't have has led them over the last couple of years.

Incidentally, I don't agree that Christ's teaching and socialism have much in common - other than a tendency towards the embracing of poverty and uninspiring food.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
My labor is mine and mine alone. You do not have the right to take that which is mine without my permission. That is called stealing.

My labor is mine to give freely but then the person receiving it for free from me must actually claim it as income in accordance with fair market value?

So, unless you agree to the notion that my labor is not mine then I suppose you have an argument.

Caesar does not own me. Therefore I should not have to render unto him anything of myself.

Now you can also argue that I take as compensation for my labor, Caesar's paper for which he want's a cut. Fine, let me be free to not accept Caesar's money for my labor. Also you should be prohibited from attaching a "like value to Caesar's money" and then make me have to come up with something I never had in the first place.

Tax me when I purchase something which aids in the free flow of economic activity. Not just because I have to earn money to stay alive.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Quote:
 
You would think that God would ask of her to live her life as an example to others of a compassionate loving, caring person. One of the most powerful examples of God's love in the Bible is that of forgiveness. Turning the other cheek. But Palin's book is a screed against everyone who ever done her wrong.


So basically today's quibble about Palin is that she's not Jesus.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
And a good thing too that she isn't. The beard would just ruin it for me.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
JBryan
Nov 18 2009, 12:41 PM
And a good thing too that she isn't. The beard would just ruin it for me.
Depends on where it's at...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Copper
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Shortstop
Aqua Letifer
Nov 18 2009, 12:33 PM
Quote:
 
You would think that God would ask of her to live her life as an example to others of a compassionate loving, caring person. One of the most powerful examples of God's love in the Bible is that of forgiveness. Turning the other cheek. But Palin's book is a screed against everyone who ever done her wrong.


So basically today's quibble about Palin is that she's not Jesus.

Unlike Mr. Obama.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Jolly
Nov 18 2009, 01:00 PM
JBryan
Nov 18 2009, 12:41 PM
And a good thing too that she isn't. The beard would just ruin it for me.
Depends on where it's at...
True.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Jolly
Nov 18 2009, 09:01 AM
QuirtEvans
Nov 18 2009, 08:16 AM
Jolly
Nov 18 2009, 08:00 AM
Even Christ showed anger.

In the moment.

Later, upon reflection? I'm not a biblical scholar, so maybe you could direct me to those passages in which he returned at some later point to smite someone with his righteous anger.

Quote:
 
God does not expect us to be a doormat.


Yeah, that part about turning the other cheek, He probably didn't mean that. He was just having an off day, I guess.

Do you really have the arrogance to claim that you know what God expects?
Don't claim to know everything He expects, but quite a lot of it is explained succinctly and clearly, so that even a little child may understand.

That's not arrogance, that's obediance.

Your problem is that you are so ate up with disdain for others and have such a high opinion of yourself, that you project that perception of reality onto everyone else. If you were a believer, I'd tell you a little time on your knees would do you good...works for me, and most other folks.

As for turning the other cheek...notice what cheek Christ specified...Christ was speaking of the back-handed slap...one of the ultimate insults in Israel of the time. Christ is teaching us to have patience in the face of insult, not to let people beat on us in an act of ultimate pacifism.

We are Christians, we are not sheeple. I serve the same Christ who not only told us to turn our cheek seven times seve, but also told his followers to sell what they had and buy a sword.
Are people beating on Sarah Palin, or insulting her?

By your own terms, the ultimate insult merits turning the other cheek. An act that you are apparently incapable of.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Larry
Nov 18 2009, 10:24 AM
Uh... John... you do know the difference between Jewish Law and Christianity, right?...
The Old Testament is still in the King James Bible, last I checked.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
QuirtEvans
Nov 18 2009, 05:44 PM
The Old Testament is still in the King James Bible, last I checked.
The original, and best. Pillars of salt, almost total annihilation of humanity, genocide, rainbows - it's all there!
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Copper
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Shortstop
QuirtEvans
Nov 18 2009, 05:42 PM

turning the other cheek.

I wonder if you haven't misinterpreted the idea of turning the other cheek.

Similar to the concept of a loving, forgiving God it isn't meant to be used to bash people over the head.


The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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blondie
Bull-Carp
apple
Nov 18 2009, 08:36 AM

i find it ironic that Christianity - the ultimate socialism, is used to justify anti-socialism.
Good point.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Copper
Nov 18 2009, 06:31 PM
QuirtEvans
Nov 18 2009, 05:42 PM

turning the other cheek.

I wonder if you haven't misinterpreted the idea of turning the other cheek.

Similar to the concept of a loving, forgiving God it isn't meant to be used to bash people over the head.


If someone refuses to turn the other cheek, is it un-Christian to point that out?

I don't think so.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Copper
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Shortstop
QuirtEvans
Nov 18 2009, 06:33 PM

If someone refuses to turn the other cheek, is it un-Christian to point that out?

It clearly demonstrates a lack of understanding.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Copper
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Shortstop
blondie
Nov 18 2009, 06:33 PM
apple
Nov 18 2009, 08:36 AM

i find it ironic that Christianity - the ultimate socialism, is used to justify anti-socialism.
Good point.

Christianity is not the ultimate socialism, not at all.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Jeff
Senior Carp
QuirtEvans
Nov 18 2009, 05:44 PM
The Old Testament
Never liked that phrase.

I mean, all of it is pretty old, doncha think?

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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Copper
Nov 18 2009, 07:12 PM
QuirtEvans
Nov 18 2009, 06:33 PM

If someone refuses to turn the other cheek, is it un-Christian to point that out?

It clearly demonstrates a lack of understanding.
Perhaps. Or perhaps you are the one who doesn't understand. Jesus certainly didn't have a problem with telling people when he felt they weren't honoring his teaching in the proper manner. If you want to live by Jesus' example, you'd live the same way, right?
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Jeff
Nov 18 2009, 07:39 PM
QuirtEvans
Nov 18 2009, 05:44 PM
The Old Testament
Never liked that phrase.

I mean, all of it is pretty old, doncha think?

I called it the Old Testament because that's convention, and everyone knows what it means.

But, if you don't like that, then you can call it the Older Testament. And explain each time to people what you mean. :bluewink:

It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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