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Any One Agree With This?
Topic Started: Jul 24 2009, 08:54 AM (553 Views)
VPG
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Pisa-Carp
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd - Australia

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..
Separately, Rudd angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society. Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'...'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'


I'M NOT YELLING.........I'M ITALIAN...........THAT'S HOW WE TALK!


"People say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look."
Ronald Reagan, Inaugural, 1971

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Larry
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I agree with it 100%, and applaud the man for having a set of balls. Now if someone in this country could grow a pair and do the same thing, we'd be a lot better off.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
As much as I poke fun at the US, and make mock-complaints about your obvious lack of decent beer culture (I trust most people here realise I'm joking), I agree with most of that. If you don't like the way a country is, don't go and live there.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
He has a point, but I doubt that Australia is as homogeneous as suggested by his usage of "we".
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
I don't have a problem with that ... for Australia.

For better or worse, we have a Constitution that makes a different set of choices.

Australia was founded as a penal colony. We were founded as a haven for religious freedom. 'Nuff said.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
On a separate note, it sounds as if you'd be happier living in Australia, Larry. Shall we start a "Bon Voyage" party? ;)
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
If I think about it, I find it unlikely that Kevin Rudd would say that. It does not seem to be consistent with the positions he is usually taking. Any links to the original sources? This stinks.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
In light of very recent news here - Family Plans to Murder...- I applaud the Australian PM's candid remarks. Enough is enough.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
As I suspected, the article is mostly fake and does in no way report the position of Kevin Rudd

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/australia.asp

I wonder what agenda do people have who fabricate these kinds of fake news?
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
QuirtEvans
Jul 24 2009, 09:18 AM
I don't have a problem with that ... for Australia.

For better or worse, we have a Constitution that makes a different set of choices.

Australia was founded as a penal colony. We were founded as a haven for religious freedom. 'Nuff said.
What a strange understanding you have of our Constitution.


Quote:
 
On a separate note, it sounds as if you'd be happier living in Australia, Larry. Shall we start a "Bon Voyage" party?



I'd be happier living in an America where people still understood the Constitution.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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QuirtEvans
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Klaus
Jul 24 2009, 09:22 AM
If I think about it, I find it unlikely that Kevin Rudd would say that. It does not seem to be consistent with the positions he is usually taking. Any links to the original sources? This stinks.
Here's what Hoax Slayer says:

Quote:
 
Status:
Contains elements of truth, but is highly misleading and inaccurate


http://www.hoax-slayer.com/84-6.shtml
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Klaus
Jul 24 2009, 09:28 AM
As I suspected, the article is mostly fake and does in no way report the position of Kevin Rudd

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/australia.asp

I wonder what agenda do people have who fabricate these kinds of fake news?
I guess we should have known that no politician anywhere actually had the kind of balls it takes to say what needs to be said.


Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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QuirtEvans
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Larry
Jul 24 2009, 09:29 AM
QuirtEvans
Jul 24 2009, 09:18 AM
I don't have a problem with that ... for Australia.

For better or worse, we have a Constitution that makes a different set of choices.

Australia was founded as a penal colony. We were founded as a haven for religious freedom. 'Nuff said.
What a strange understanding you have of our Constitution.


Quote:
 
On a separate note, it sounds as if you'd be happier living in Australia, Larry. Shall we start a "Bon Voyage" party?



I'd be happier living in an America where people still understood the Constitution.

Really? Because it certainly seems as if my understanding of the Constitution is more mainstream and yours is more fringe.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
Really? Because it certainly seems as if my understanding of the Constitution is more mainstream and yours is more fringe.



Where in the Constitution does it say that we have to accomodate Sharia Law, Quirt? Do you even know what that is? Where in the Constitution does it say that people coming here don't have to get with the f*cking program?

This isn't a Constitutional issue. This is the US. If people want to come here and take advantage of all that this country offers them, then they can damn sure fit into it. If they don't want to fit in, they can get the hell out. Nothing in the Constitution guarantees anyone the right to come here and tear down what has already been built.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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QuirtEvans
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This country was founded as a place for religious freedom ... where anyone could practice whatever religion they liked without having to "fit in". Nobody is required to "get with the f*cking program", and nobody has a right to define what that program is. As long as they comply with the law, they're free to live their lives, as they wish.

You don't have to like that, but that's the fact, Jack.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Renauda
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There is no need whatsoever for any secular Western state to have to accomodate Sharia law so that its Muslim residents can observe their religious freedom.

Western liberals had better wake up to the fact that Islamism and secularism cannot accomodate one another.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
QuirtEvans
Jul 24 2009, 09:39 AM
This country was founded as a place for religious freedom ... where anyone could practice whatever religion they liked without having to "fit in". Nobody is required to "get with the f*cking program", and nobody has a right to define what that program is. As long as they comply with the law, they're free to live their lives, as they wish.

You don't have to like that, but that's the fact, Jack.
Didn't you argue once that this is a secular nation, and that religion has no place in the public square? Now all of a sudden we were founded as a place for religious freedom?

You say "as long as they comply with the law" - did you not notice that one of the issues is the imposition of Sharia law? Where in the Constitution does it say that we have to be so accomodating that we allow foreigners to come into the country and replace our legal system with theirs?

And yes, you are required to "get with the program". This isn't Mexico. his isn't Iran. This isn't Bumf*ck, Egypt. This is the US. And you can practice your religion just as freely as you want to, but you cannot reshape the country to suit you. Learn the f*cking language.

Part of protecting our Constitution is protecting our freedom, and protecting our way of life. The Constitution deals with what power the people give to the federal government. We did not grant the federal government the power to allow people to come into this country and turn it into their old country. Italians, Jews, Germans, Irish, you name it, came to this country and became AMERICANS. Today they come in and remain whatever they were, and hold the US in contempt all while taking advantage of what we have to offer. And they get away with it because no one has the balls to tell them to either be American or get the hell out. Too may people are doing what you're doing, hiding behind the Constitution when the Constitution hasn't got sh!t to do with it.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Renauda
Jul 24 2009, 09:53 AM
There is no need whatsoever for any secular Western state to have to accomodate Sharia law so that its Muslim residents can observe their religious freedom.

Western liberals had better wake up to the fact that Islamism and secularism cannot accomodate one another.
Thank you.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Sound like this was written by a wingnut, not by any viable politician in a free country.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I wonder if they force expect the Australian Aborigines to speak English and not be offended by the Christian faith.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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John D'Oh
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kenny
Jul 24 2009, 09:59 AM
Sound like this was written by a wingnut, not by any viable politician in a free country.
I think that some of the language is just due to him being Australian - they're a pretty plain speaking bunch of blokes. Over here a politico would have to dress it all up in pseudo-sociological mumbo-jumbo and use lots of words ending in 'ize', but they could still give the same message.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
Jul 24 2009, 09:59 AM
Sound like this was written by a wingnut, not by any viable politician in a free country.
Not at all. Australians simply have no patience for the political correctness of multiculturalism prevalent in North America. I have colleagues with Australian spouses who regularly travel to Australia. Racial profiling of muslims and other visible groups upon entry and departure is openly admitted and accepted practice at customs and immigration points.
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JoeB
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Senior Carp
Got that email a lot of times. You guys really ought to get out more.

Snopes
 
Muslims Out of Australia!
Claim: € Article compiles statements from Australian government officials about Sharia
law and Muslim extremists.
MIXTURE OF CORRECT
AND INCORRECT ATTRIBUTIONS
Example: € [Collected via e-mail, 2005]
Muslims Out of Australia!
CANBERRA AUSTRALIA: Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law
were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted
radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks. A day after a group of
mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia at a special meeting
with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his ministers made it clear that
extremists would face a crackdown.
Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some
radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that
australia was a secular state and its laws were made by parliament. "If
those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a
theocratic state, then Australia is not for you," he said on national television.
"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing
people in Australia, one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that
is false.
If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy,
and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to other country
which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option," Costello said.
Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said
those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other
country.
Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did
not want to accept local values should "clear off". "Basically, people who
don't want to be Australians, and they don't want to live by Australian
values and understand them, well then they can basically clear off," he said.
Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by
saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

Variations: € A January 2008 variant combined elements of this piece with a 2001
editorial about immigrants written by a U.S. Air Force veteran, creating the misleading
impression that the hybrid version reflected a speech given by Australian prime
minister John Howard. A February 2009 variant attributed the entire combined version
to Kevin Rudd, who succeeded John Howard as Australia's prime minister in 2007.


Snopes
"There are many ingredients in the stew of annoyance." - Bucky Katt
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QuirtEvans
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Larry
Jul 24 2009, 09:53 AM
Didn't you argue once that this is a secular nation, and that religion has no place in the public square? Now all of a sudden we were founded as a place for religious freedom?




Part of protecting our Constitution is protecting our freedom, and protecting our way of life. The Constitution deals with what power the people give to the federal government. We did not grant the federal government the power to allow people to come into this country and turn it into their old country. Italians, Jews, Germans, Irish, you name it, came to this country and became AMERICANS. Today they come in and remain whatever they were, and hold the US in contempt all while taking advantage of what we have to offer. And they get away with it because no one has the balls to tell them to either be American or get the hell out. Too may people are doing what you're doing, hiding behind the Constitution when the Constitution hasn't got sh!t to do with it.

Freedom of religion includes the right to reject religion, if you so choose.

Quote:
 
You say "as long as they comply with the law" - did you not notice that one of the issues is the imposition of Sharia law? Where in the Constitution does it say that we have to be so accomodating that we allow foreigners to come into the country and replace our legal system with theirs?


No one here is arguing that any group should be allowed to replace our legal system with theirs. You're setting up a strawman.

Quote:
 
And yes, you are required to "get with the program". This isn't Mexico. his isn't Iran. This isn't Bumf*ck, Egypt. This is the US. And you can practice your religion just as freely as you want to, but you cannot reshape the country to suit you. Learn the f*cking language.


You have some truth buried in that diatribe. You can't reshape the country to suit you. However, you are not required to fit in. You can follow your own path, as long as you comply with the law. And you are absolutely NOT required to learn the language.

Quote:
 
Part of protecting our Constitution is protecting our freedom, and protecting our way of life. The Constitution deals with what power the people give to the federal government. We did not grant the federal government the power to allow people to come into this country and turn it into their old country. Italians, Jews, Germans, Irish, you name it, came to this country and became AMERICANS. Today they come in and remain whatever they were, and hold the US in contempt all while taking advantage of what we have to offer. And they get away with it because no one has the balls to tell them to either be American or get the hell out. Too may people are doing what you're doing, hiding behind the Constitution when the Constitution hasn't got sh!t to do with it.



The Constitution has quite a lot to do with it. Because, while they must swear an oath to become a citizen, they are NOT required to adapt to this country, any more than they are permitted to require this country to adapt to them.

Your knowledge of history is rather poor if you think that Italians, Jews, Germans, Irish, and others all adapted to the United States. In many cases, they did not. They established enclaves where they could continue the practices of their home countries ... consistent with the law, of course ... and this persisted through many generations.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Renauda
Jul 24 2009, 09:53 AM
Western liberals had better wake up to the fact that Islamism and secularism cannot accomodate one another.
I don't know if that's necessarily true in all cases. Turkey is a good example of how it can be done. And the vast majority of Muslims in the US appreciate and subject themselves to representative democracy and the Constitution.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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