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Dr King says, "No!"
Topic Started: Jul 23 2009, 05:18 PM (455 Views)
Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=16642
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Copper
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Shortstop

Good.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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George K
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Finally
Wow.

The "healthcare" bill includes Federal funding for abortions.

Who'da thunk it?

Who reported it?

Regardless of how one feels on the issue, and, admittedly, my position is mixed and unclear, you'd think this should be common knowledge to everyone who has a position on the "healthcare bill."

Somehow it's not.

I wonder why.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Got powerful if you want it..
Quote:
 
"Give us procreative reproductive rights. Repair our communities with life affirming programs. My fellow civil rights workers and I will be on Capitol Hill to say that if President Obama, Speaker Pelosi, or anyone else truly wants to reduce the number of abortions, they will not coerce Americans to pay for them and they will not subsidize Planned Parenthood, the billion-dollar business that has killed more black children than the KKK," King charged.



Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Good for her.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Pay for abortion or pay for the healthcare of the person from cradle to grave.

Medicaid and Medicare already cover abortions. So you tax money is already paying for abortions.

If you buy healthcare insurance from any private insurer who sells policies that cover abortions, you are already paying for some one else's abortion via your healthcare insurance premiums, too.

If you want to get high and mighty about "paying for abortions," let me see you dump your current healthcare insurer for another healthcare insurer that does not offer any policy whatsoever that covers abortion. If you cannot find any such insurer, then let me see you go without healthcare insurance -- then you can get high and mighty about rejecting healthcare reform based on abortion argument.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
To me, it isn't a matter of the money involved. If it were necessary to stop a situation that I truly believe is the single most significant, appalling, and disgraceful moral failing of our nation, I would gladly vote to pay for a system of orphanages to raise the children of parents who didn't want their unborn child, versus paying a far smaller sum for them to simply abort the child. Even for people who talk about the money, it isn't the money. It's the morality.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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George K
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Finally
Axtremus
Jul 23 2009, 06:44 PM
Pay for abortion or pay for the healthcare of the person from cradle to grave.
Interesting that you make this comment in light of the fact that you consider preventive care cheaper.

See other thread.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Dewey
Jul 23 2009, 06:51 PM
To me, it isn't a matter of the money involved. If it were necessary to stop a situation that I truly believe is the single most significant, appalling, and disgraceful moral failing of our nation, I would gladly vote to pay for a system of orphanages to raise the children of parents who didn't want their unborn child, versus paying a far smaller sum for them to simply abort the child. Even for people who talk about the money, it isn't the money. It's the morality.
Strictly on morality, I deem it a greater sin to muck up healthcare for the whole population than to not fund however many abortions that would not have taken place had it not for healthcare reform.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Sorry, even trying to diagram that sentence, I'm not sure I know what you're trying to say there.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Dewey
Jul 23 2009, 07:03 PM
Sorry, even trying to diagram that sentence, I'm not sure I know what you're trying to say there.
Let me explain it further...

The "abortion" argument is brought in with only one objective -- to shoot down "public option." (If there is no "public option," then there is no worry about anyone paying into a pool that, among other things, will be used to pay for some abortions.)

Now consider two parallel worlds - World X and World Y.

World X is the world where public option goes through without any special restriction on "abortion".

World Y is the world where "public option" does not go through because of "abortion" debate.

(You can imagine a World Z where "public option" goes through, but with restriction on abortion coverage. This is not a plausible scenario seeing that private insurers, Medicaid, and Medicare all cover abortions to one extent or another. So only World X and World Y are plausible outcomes.)

In World X, there will be some number of babies aborted. Let's call this number x.

In World Y, there will be some other number of babies aborted. Let's call this number y.

I will assume that, in you mind, you believe x > y. So I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that x > y.

Now I rewrite my original sentence as follow:

rewrite
 
Strictly on morality, I deem it a greater sin to muck up healthcare for the whole population than to not fund (x - y) abortions.


Does it make more sense now?
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Yes, that's what I thought you meant; I wasn't sure I followed all the compound negatives properly. Based on your edited sentence, I'd say that mucking up healthcare for the whole population would be a grievous thing - but that I think that what Obama is proposing is what would actually muck it up far worse than its current flaws. Having said that, though, I disagree with your statement. I don't think that even that would be morally/ethically worse than the current situation of the appalling number of abortions-as-birth-control, regardless of who pays for them.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Since you invoke the matter of morality and even the language of sin, it is a far greater sin to deliberate kill any innocent human being than to unintentionally muck up health care for an entire population, and that even gives more credibility that it deserves to your notion that not allowing abortion at all would in any way muck up a health care system.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Axtremus
Jul 23 2009, 06:44 PM
Pay for abortion or pay for the healthcare of the person from cradle to grave.

Medicaid and Medicare already cover abortions. So you tax money is already paying for abortions.

If you buy healthcare insurance from any private insurer who sells policies that cover abortions, you are already paying for some one else's abortion via your healthcare insurance premiums, too.

If you want to get high and mighty about "paying for abortions," let me see you dump your current healthcare insurer for another healthcare insurer that does not offer any policy whatsoever that covers abortion. If you cannot find any such insurer, then let me see you go without healthcare insurance -- then you can get high and mighty about rejecting healthcare reform based on abortion argument.
Do you really not know that that was about the dumbest rant you've made?

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Jul 23 2009, 08:47 PM
Do you really not know that that was about the dumbest rant you've made?

I am quite certain that I have made dumber rants in the past.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Axtremus
Jul 23 2009, 09:43 PM
Larry
Jul 23 2009, 08:47 PM
Do you really not know that that was about the dumbest rant you've made?

I am quite certain that I have made dumber rants in the past.
:D

Ok.. You got me...... :D
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Bernard
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Senior Carp
re: healthcare bill including federal funding for abortions.

Peggy Noonan's opinion: "Speaking only and narrowly in political terms, this is so ignorant as to be astounding."

My opinion: Much what the Dems are doing is so ignorant as to be astounding. It makes one wonder what they've been smoking--or drinking. Could it be Koolaid?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203517304574306533556532364.html


P.S. I AM for a solution to our healthcare woes. I just don't think anyone is really working hard and earnest enough for a solution. They are working for political solutions, not healthcare solutions.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
George K
Jul 23 2009, 05:30 PM
Wow.

The "healthcare" bill includes Federal funding for abortions.

Who'da thunk it?

Who reported it?

Regardless of how one feels on the issue, and, admittedly, my position is mixed and unclear, you'd think this should be common knowledge to everyone who has a position on the "healthcare bill."

Somehow it's not.

I wonder why.
Great, something to negotiate away for votes later.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
This is all nice, but why is there a group of "African American pro-life leaders"? What does "African American" have to do with anything? Why not have a "People with brunette hair pro-life leaders" group, too, then?
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Bernard
Jul 23 2009, 10:43 PM
P.S. I AM for a solution to our healthcare woes. I just don't think anyone is really working hard and earnest enough for a solution. They are working for political solutions, not healthcare solutions.
Word up, Bernard. This thing is being slapped together with the same recklessness and lack of consideration as the 'stimulus' bill. The unintended consequences will be huge.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Klaus
Jul 24 2009, 02:13 AM
This is all nice, but why is there a group of "African American pro-life leaders"? What does "African American" have to do with anything? Why not have a "People with brunette hair pro-life leaders" group, too, then?
In a fair world you are right. However, Obama self-identifies as black and uses that for political gain, ala the Gates thing. There is something to be said for letting the president know many of his core support group - blacks - oppose him here.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Fair enough...
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
Jul 24 2009, 03:31 AM
Bernard
Jul 23 2009, 10:43 PM
P.S. I AM for a solution to our healthcare woes. I just don't think anyone is really working hard and earnest enough for a solution. They are working for political solutions, not healthcare solutions.
Word up, Bernard. This thing is being slapped together with the same recklessness and lack of consideration as the 'stimulus' bill. The unintended consequences will be huge.
Oops, sounded for a minute like you were talking about the Patriot Act.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Klaus
Jul 24 2009, 02:13 AM
This is all nice, but why is there a group of "African American pro-life leaders"? What does "African American" have to do with anything? Why not have a "People with brunette hair pro-life leaders" group, too, then?
Because abortion is considered a form of genocide against blacks -- Jesse Jackson used to be pro life and made that point until he sold out to advance in the Democratic party.

http://blackgenocide.org
"For every two African American women that get pregnant one will choose to abort.
A Black baby is 5 times more likely to be killed in the womb than a White baby."

http://www.nationalblackprolifeunion.com/
"The Alan Guttmacher Institute and with the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) show that a huge majority (experts estimate more than 75 percent) of abortion clinics are located in minority neighborhoods."

If brunettes were being targeted then your question would have its answer.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jul 24 2009, 08:32 AM
Klaus
Jul 24 2009, 02:13 AM
This is all nice, but why is there a group of "African American pro-life leaders"? What does "African American" have to do with anything? Why not have a "People with brunette hair pro-life leaders" group, too, then?
Because abortion is considered a form of genocide against blacks -- Jesse Jackson used to be pro life and made that point until he sold out to advance in the Democratic party.

http://blackgenocide.org
"For every two African American women that get pregnant one will choose to abort.
A Black baby is 5 times more likely to be killed in the womb than a White baby."

http://www.nationalblackprolifeunion.com/
"The Alan Guttmacher Institute and with the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) show that a huge majority (experts estimate more than 75 percent) of abortion clinics are located in minority neighborhoods."

If brunettes were being targeted then your question would have its answer.
There are many properties that influence the likelihood of abortion. I am sure that, say, poor pregnant teenage girls are more likely to have an abortion than pregnant women in their mid-30s who do not have any financial worries. Black people are probably more likely to have these properties, but so are many other groups of people.

Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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