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| For our atheist friends; A summer camp for kids | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 23 2009, 05:31 AM (798 Views) | |
| QuantumIvory | Jul 23 2009, 05:31 AM Post #1 |
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Senior Carp
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Celebrate nothingness! |
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"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 23 2009, 05:36 AM Post #2 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I like the name ... 'Camp Quest'.
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| John D'Oh | Jul 23 2009, 07:11 AM Post #3 |
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MAMIL
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As a child my father was quite religious, and went to an American-run Bible camp. The experience turned him into a life-long heretic. I suspect that the lack of any sense of irony of those running the camp would not have endeared them to a British audience, particularly one with my dad's somewhat singular sense of humour. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| kenny | Jul 23 2009, 07:13 AM Post #4 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Controlling little minds is creepy - pro or anti religion. |
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| dolmansaxlil | Jul 23 2009, 07:16 AM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'm on the fence. I went to the article prepared to be completely against it. Atheism isn't a religion, people. However, I do like the idea of a place where kids are encouraged to question things. So I like the questioning bit, but I think they need to tone the "atheism is a religion" attitude down a bit. All of the summer camps around here are run by religious organizations. If I had to choose between this one and one of those (i was subjected to one as a child), I'd choose this one. But what I'd really like is a summer camp where they just go have fun and religion doesn't enter into it at all - one way or the other. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Quagmire | Jul 23 2009, 07:21 AM Post #6 |
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Senior Carp
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I always find it unfortunate when atheism is referred to as 'nothingness'. Since when is critical thinking, interest in science, marveling at the wonders of the universe, and the quest for truth, "nothing"? |
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| kenny | Jul 23 2009, 07:23 AM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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To me atheism is only accepting what you can be reasonably sure of. It is the opposite of faith. |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 23 2009, 07:33 AM Post #8 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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We had Boy Scout Camp. It was cool and fairly secular. At least it wasn't religiously oriented. We learned to do absolutely awful things to each other. You would not believe. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Quagmire | Jul 23 2009, 07:37 AM Post #9 |
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Senior Carp
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Atheism apparently means very different things to different people. I dont believe in the god(s) represented in the religious texts. Thats my criteria for calling myself an aetheist. I spent some time at the richard dawkins website forum, and omg, what a mess! I was expecting intelligent discourse and critical thinking, but what I found was a clusterfvck of knuckleheads with more prejudice, bias, ignorant acceptance, and judgement than the fundamentalists that they presume to ridicule. I couldnt believe what I was reading. They couldnt even grasp the atheist argument. Although, I think that has more to do with what typically is drawn to internet forums, than any sort of ideological observation. |
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| Renauda | Jul 23 2009, 08:31 AM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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That's actually more in line with the traditional definition of an atheist.* Until the Enlightenment the notion of there not being a God was near to inconceivable. An atheist was a fairly loosely applied term to any Christian who deviated into heresy or an alein culture that practiced polytheism. In the case of the former, Unitarians were thus considered irredeemable heretics by Catholics, Lutherans and Calvinists alike owing to their anti-trinitarian atheism. *I have been censured and mocked in past by the resident pseudo-synod for stating this historical fact. I however refuse to recant. |
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| Moonbat | Jul 23 2009, 12:03 PM Post #11 |
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Pisa-Carp
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+1 |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| Larry | Jul 23 2009, 12:13 PM Post #12 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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That depends on which form of it you're referring to. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Larry | Jul 23 2009, 12:19 PM Post #13 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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That certainly isn't "nothing", but when someone takes the position that atheists are the only ones who use critical thinking, have an interest in science, marvel at the wonders of the universe, or are on a quest for the truth, and then from there holds the ignorant view that those who believe in God do not, it's not only ignorance in action, it's insulting. There is absolutely no reason to think science and the "quest for truth" and God and the belief in God are mutually exclusive. One deals in how, one deals in why. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jul 23 2009, 12:19 PM Post #14 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I really don't consider any of those things to be adequate definitions of what "atheism" is. Atheism is simply the belief that there is no God. Critical thinking, interest in science, marveling at the wonders of the universe and the quest for truth are strawman associations. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Larry | Jul 23 2009, 12:28 PM Post #15 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Atheism is the belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded into something for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Science however, is something else..... |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| dolmansaxlil | Jul 23 2009, 12:31 PM Post #16 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'm an atheist. It means I do not believe there is a god. Period. Science IS something else, Larry. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Quagmire | Jul 23 2009, 12:39 PM Post #17 |
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Senior Carp
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I didnt mean to present those as definitions of atheism. In fact, I clearly stated the singular criterion I use, the lack of a belief in god. My point was that the faith crowd often portrays an atheist as being all about nothing (as in the original post, and article). That is not the case. An atheist can be all about many many wonderful things, and I listed some that I am about. My point was about the arrogance of someone thinking that if I'm not into what they're into, then I'm about nothing. |
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| Quagmire | Jul 23 2009, 12:42 PM Post #18 |
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Senior Carp
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I cant imagine where you got this notion from. Its certainly not one I've ever heard. In fact, "magically" is decidedly not a part of the atheists' position. |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jul 23 2009, 12:44 PM Post #19 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Ah. So they're confusing you for a nihilist I guess. FWIW, I get the same thing, too. I tell certain people that I'm a Catholic and they look at me like I'm some kind of crackpot that never drinks, swears or... okay well maybe I'm not a very good Catholic but still you know what I mean.
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| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| sue | Jul 23 2009, 12:53 PM Post #20 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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To me, being an atheist simply means not believing in god(s). That's it. I would not send my kid to an 'atheist' summer camp any more than I would send him to a Christian, Jewish or Muslim summer camp. I would send him to a summer camp where he learned to canoe, and swim and build campfires etc., and hopefully meet an interesting mix of people and have some fun. I would make sure he had some critical thinking skills in place long before I'd be sending him off to summer camps. |
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| Red Rice | Jul 23 2009, 01:00 PM Post #21 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Mr. Prince: We'll see you when you get back from image enhancement camp. Martin Prince: Spare me your euphemisms! It's fat camp, for Daddy's chubby little secret! |
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Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool. I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss! - Cecil Lewis | |
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| Quagmire | Jul 23 2009, 01:09 PM Post #22 |
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Senior Carp
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Me too, Sue. However, very often, in discussions, atheists often refer very casually to a fact of 'no afterlife', or 'we're nothing but wormfood after death', etc, as if its inherent to atheism. I find them to be very separate issues. I dont believe in god, but I have no idea what happens to consciousness, mind, psyche, whatever, after death. To my knowdledge we have not definitively defined what 'mind' is, so how can we so dissmissively claim its gone after physical death. Its a touchy issue because the word 'afterlife' is so linked to notions of heaven and ghosts and such, whereas there are an infinite number of other possibilities to entertain about what happens to ones 'mind' after physical death, including ones that we cant wrap our heads around. It requires some very abstract thinking to ponder it separate from conventional notions of afterlife, which are very linked to 'god'. But it doesnt need to be. I pose this to you, because in an earlier post somewhere, you mentioned you accept that when you die, its all over. So you seem to equate atheism with 'terminal mind' (for lack of better phrase), whereas here you say its ONLY about no god. I find it an interesting issue. I really think they are two separate ideas, but invariably linked as the same. |
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| Larry | Jul 23 2009, 01:10 PM Post #23 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Now you know how those who believe in God feel when atheists portray believers as simple minded people who don't like or understand science and whose views are dismissed as silly by people who think we believe that God is an old man with a long white beard wearing a long white robe sitting on a cloud somewhere and who created the world by saying "poof - you're a chicken.... poof - you're a cat"... all in 7 24 hour periods, and then he took a nap. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Renauda | Jul 23 2009, 01:12 PM Post #24 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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+1, although my wife has fond childhood memories of her summers at the local Young Pioneer Camp. |
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| sue | Jul 23 2009, 01:45 PM Post #25 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Well, not believing in god eliminates the heaven and hell issues, doesn't it? Yes, I see what you are saying, and I would not assume all atheists would agree completely with my thoughts about what happens after death, but I would expect they would agree with not being judged and sent one way or the other to some mythical place. That's a god thing. The whole 'what happens to the mind after death' question is certainly something I've pondered and in the past, had a hard time coming to grips with the concept of having my mind, my thoughts, my consciousness, just vanishing and becoming nothing when I die. And I do see that as separate from my non belief in god. I've gone through that a lot over the years, and am now at a point where I believe that when my physical body dies, that's really the end of the show. Why wouldn't it be? Am I right? I don't know, but I've made my peace with the fear of becoming 'nothing.' But I do agree with you, it is indeed an interesting question, and I would not dismiss the notion that I may change my mind about it as my life goes on. I'm open to that. |
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6:49 AM Jul 11