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| No chain grocery stores in Detroit; what welfare hath wrought | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 22 2009, 04:37 PM (855 Views) | |
| big al | Jul 24 2009, 04:50 AM Post #51 |
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Bull-Carp
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So you want to revert to the good old days of hobos and Hoovervilles. Unemployment in the city of Detroit was 60,373 in June, 2008 and rose to 109,564 in June, 2009. Those are people who aren't working because they have no job, not because they don't want to. If you know where 50,000 jobs are presently available for them, I'm sure quite a few would welcome that information. Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 24 2009, 04:54 AM Post #52 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Al, Detroit did not go down the tubes this year. It was a freaking war zone twenty years ago. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| big al | Jul 24 2009, 05:04 AM Post #53 |
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Bull-Carp
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I know that, Mik. I've worked off and on in the Detroit area on various projects since 1978. I know there are some people and some places you would rather not have anything to do with. But I also know that there are a lot of good hard-working people who have suffered and eventually left because the industries that brought them or their ancestors to the Detroit area have vanished or moved elsewhere. The many, many empty blocks cleared of building that once housed people and small businesses are witness to how many people have already left town. To blame all this pain and suffering on the stragglers left behind is like blaming refugees for being the last to leave a war zone, as I see it. Big |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 24 2009, 06:01 AM Post #54 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Al, you keep trying to change or reinterpret my original point. I don't blame the stragglers who have not left. I blame the decimation of the family and motivation that social welfare has wrought on them. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| big al | Jul 24 2009, 06:24 AM Post #55 |
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Bull-Carp
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I must have misunderstood your point, then, Mik. It seemed to me that you were blaming Detroit's woes on LBJ and his Great Society. Is it your implication that the implosion of American manufacturing jobs that took place over the past 30+ years is a result of LBJ's policies? If so, perhaps you can elaborate on why that decline has continued and accelerated through subsequent administrations. Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 24 2009, 06:38 AM Post #56 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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No, Al. I am blaming those entities and the damage they wrought for the way poor people have responded, or more accurately NOT responded, to declining economic conditions. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| big al | Jul 24 2009, 07:26 AM Post #57 |
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Bull-Carp
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There are a host of reasons why poor people cannot respond to changing conditions as well as others, ranging from the simple fact that less money means fewer feasible choices to the likelihood that some are less mentally capable of responding and are poor to start with for that reason. One factor that many people overlook is that many poor people cannot move because of previous criminal offenses, either their own or those of a family member like a spouse they do not wish to separate from. While they are imprisoned or while they are released on parole or probation, their mobility is legally restricted. If they try to leave the area to find work, they are subject to arrest and reimprisonment. You can argue that they made their own problems, but eventually those problems create other problems for people other than themselves and some of those problems like urban deterioration, street crime, etc. become all our problems. I simply do not accept any premise that the poor are solely to blame for the conditions they exist under any more than I could accept serfdom or slavery as acceptable arrangements of society. I don't disagree that some government programs intended to alleviate suffering have had bad side effects as to promoting idleness and indigency in some subset of the population, but to castigate the entire population of a city as the article you cited does is unacceptable to me and, I would hope, many other people. If you find it acceptable, then you and I will simply have to disagree. Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 24 2009, 07:32 AM Post #58 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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What are you smoking? Nowhere in the article I posted does it castigate the poor of Detroit, nor did I. You had it right in the first part of the sentence I quoted. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Jolly | Jul 24 2009, 08:04 AM Post #59 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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No, the poor will be with us always. But...the nature and behavior of those poor people is subject to their own control. One can be poor without engaging in theiving, lying, cheating, dealing drugs or any number of society-damaging behaviors. When we bring The Great Society into the discussion, we are commenting on how a government program obliterated much of the family in poor black households, much as Moynihan predicted. This lack of familial structure leads to abherrent behavior in juveniles, which grow into maladjusted adults and has been propogated for generations. The reason Detroit has suffered more than most, is due to the concentration (more than any other Northern city) of poor black families. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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