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| Go Get 'Em, Senator Schumer! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 21 2009, 02:03 PM (524 Views) | |
| QuirtEvans | Jul 22 2009, 06:32 AM Post #26 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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The argument is a red herring, I agree. But it's a red herring that allows Republican Congressmen to vote against tougher enforcement and penalties. So take away the red herring. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 22 2009, 06:36 AM Post #27 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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In this case I must differ with both parties. The solution proposed is rather onerous, IMO, and declining to enforce because of the difficulty of the current laws.. which I might add I have had to adhere to for the last 20 years or so.. are both the wrong way to go. Perhaps it's only campaign finance reform that will allow us to fix our real problems. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Dewey | Jul 22 2009, 07:51 AM Post #28 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You may have understood Quirt's point, but you completely missed mine. Of course a SSN is inadequate as a national ID. My point is not its adequacy, but that the government always swore up and down until they were blue in the face that they would *not* use it as an identity card, and that it was strictly for the purpose of administering Social Security. Yet, despite its obvious inadequacy of being one, governmental and private entites have tried to use it as such almost since the day the first SS card was issued. My point is that the SS card is evidence that the government can't keep its own promises, and will not police overstepping of bounds that they set out for themselves. Once established, the use of a national ID card will creep, just as it did with the SS card - and ultimately, no ID is unforgeable, so we'll continue to have the problems that such a card set out to fix, while at the same time having another layer of burdensome control over various aspects of our lives. Feh. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| QuirtEvans | Jul 22 2009, 07:56 AM Post #29 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Since there's no such thing as perfect, we shouldn't try at all. Hmm, that sounds like an argument for not doing almost anything. And Ax is right, the Social Security card is not a national identification card. It's an identification NUMBER, but the number itself does nothing to assure that the person providing it owns the number. Moreover, it's really not the government that's using social security numbers as identification numbers ... it's private entities like credit card companies, banks, and so on. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 22 2009, 08:00 AM Post #30 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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No one said we should do nothing. We just should not do what Schumer proposes. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| QuirtEvans | Jul 22 2009, 08:03 AM Post #31 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Unfortunately, your proposal ... greater enforcement and fines ... has been blocked by the supporters of the Chamber of Commerce. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Kincaid | Jul 22 2009, 09:21 AM Post #32 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Why would anyone hire an illegal worker rather than a legal worker? I can only imagine it is because 1) they want to pay substandard wages or 2) they can't get legal workers to do the work. So, if we can lock down our borders and fine the sh!t out of any employer paying substandard wages, won't the rest of the problem take care of itself? And if an employer is paying the minimum wage and no one but an illegal wants to do it, where is the harm in that? |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 22 2009, 09:24 AM Post #33 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Well, since you have described it as the Republicans carrying that flag, Quirt, that should not be a problem given the current Congress. What's the next excuse for not enforcing the laws we have today? It's a recession you know. If it's a matter of manpower, we can always hire lots of people. We can put people to work putting people out of work. Perfect government program.
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| ivorythumper | Jul 23 2009, 05:26 PM Post #34 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Mik: Q is making the USCC into a bogyman. The USCC is fully supportive an employment verification program, but obviously does not want the employer to bear the burden for good faith acceptance when hiring people who turn out to be here illegally with false papers. That does not equate to "employer verification does not work", even if it does not work perfectly. The fact is the Dems are not the least bit interested in border enforcement or stemming illegal immigration but of course they want to be seen as "doing something", and of course they concoct a system that most Americans find rightly intrusive, cumbersome and expensive. The fallacy of the position that leftists take is to posit if you are against a ruthlessly efficient method, then you are against any solution. So they propose ruthlessly efficient systems such as national identity cards and employer burdening enforcement because they really don't want reasonable solutions since they don't see it as a problem to begin with. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 24 2009, 02:14 AM Post #35 |
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Cheers
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You missed a crucial step. Before we allow you to buy food, we have to check to make sure all your taxes are paid. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Jul 24 2009, 03:14 AM Post #36 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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/ignore |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Larry | Jul 24 2009, 05:28 AM Post #37 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Well, you can't do that - if you did, then the democrats wouldn't be able to buy food! |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Axtremus | Jul 24 2009, 06:19 AM Post #38 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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That's good incentive to support National ID, isn't it? |
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| Larry | Jul 24 2009, 06:34 AM Post #39 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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No, but it's a great incentive to try to get rid of the damned democrats in office. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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6:49 AM Jul 11