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Are you an atheist? I am, and so should you.; (be one that is)
Topic Started: Jul 15 2009, 07:59 PM (4,794 Views)
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
VPG
Jul 16 2009, 09:45 AM
Being an athiest is sort of like being all dressed up with no place to go.
.
.One question about the "Big Bang". What blew up? Anyone?


I'm wearing shorts and flip flops, and I'm already there.


There is no end to the questions we can make up, and just because you make up a question doesn't mean there is an answer.

Not having answers drives people nuts. :shrug:

I'm okay with unanswered questions.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
VPG
Jul 16 2009, 09:45 AM
Being an athiest is sort of like being all dressed up with no place to go.
.
.One question about the "Big Bang". What blew up? Anyone?
An infinitesimally small speck that contained all matter that we now know of.

:lol2:
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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VPG
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Pisa-Carp
Any idea what was in that Universe? People, beings, God, Gods?
I'M NOT YELLING.........I'M ITALIAN...........THAT'S HOW WE TALK!


"People say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look."
Ronald Reagan, Inaugural, 1971

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
VPG
Jul 16 2009, 09:45 AM
Being an athiest is sort of like being all dressed up with no place to go.
.
.One question about the "Big Bang". What blew up? Anyone?
I will answer your question with three imponderables of my own:


When God stubs his toe, what does he say?

If he's all-knowing and loving, explain freaking mosquitos. I'd have been willing for Jesus to have been merely unwell on our behalf in exchange for the total annihilation of every last damnable mosquito.

Richard Simmons - why?


I think a brief consideration of the above should be more than enough for most skeptics. Embrace the one true lack of faith.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
VPG
Jul 16 2009, 09:45 AM
Being an athiest is sort of like being all dressed up with no place to go.

One can have a pretty darned good time, dressed up in fancy hats (or shorts and flip flops), right in the here and now. :wave:
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Moonbat
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Quote:
 

Any idea what was in that Universe? People, beings, God, Gods?


Same stuff that's in it now - particles.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Jul 16 2009, 10:01 AM
VPG
Jul 16 2009, 09:45 AM
Being an athiest is sort of like being all dressed up with no place to go.
.
.One question about the "Big Bang". What blew up? Anyone?
I will answer your question with three imponderables of my own:


When God stubs his toe, what does he say?

If he's all-knowing and loving, explain freaking mosquitos. I'd have been willing for Jesus to have been merely unwell on our behalf in exchange for the total annihilation of every last damnable mosquito.

Richard Simmons - why?


I think a brief consideration of the above should be more than enough for most skeptics. Embrace the one true lack of faith.
1) I damn (insert whatever it was he stubbed his toe on)

2) Hey! Bats need food too!

3) It's that whole, "free will" thing. We have to take the bad with the good I suppose.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Jul 16 2009, 10:01 AM
Richard Simmons - why?
I cannot tolerate THIS unanswered question.

I am hereby a devout believer.

Now, tell me God, Richard Simmons . . . WHY!?!
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Moonbat
Jul 16 2009, 10:07 AM
Quote:
 

Any idea what was in that Universe? People, beings, God, Gods?


Same stuff that's in it now - particles.
The more interesting question (at least to me) is: What caused the Big Bang?
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Klaus
Jul 16 2009, 10:21 AM
Moonbat
Jul 16 2009, 10:07 AM
Quote:
 

Any idea what was in that Universe? People, beings, God, Gods?


Same stuff that's in it now - particles.
The more interesting question (at least to me) is: What caused the Big Bang?
and what caused what caused the big bang?

and what caused that?

and what caused that?

Yawn!
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
kenny
Jul 16 2009, 10:09 AM
Now, tell me God, Richard Simmons . . . WHY!?!
Presumably, because plagues of locusts, boils, and killing of the first born are just so passé.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
Klaus
Jul 16 2009, 10:21 AM
Moonbat
Jul 16 2009, 10:07 AM
Quote:
 

Any idea what was in that Universe? People, beings, God, Gods?


Same stuff that's in it now - particles.
The more interesting question (at least to me) is: What caused the Big Bang?
The particles that would, eventually, be Larry, brushed up against the particles that would, eventually, be Kathy.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Horace
Jul 16 2009, 10:27 AM
Klaus
Jul 16 2009, 10:21 AM
Moonbat
Jul 16 2009, 10:07 AM
Quote:
 

Any idea what was in that Universe? People, beings, God, Gods?


Same stuff that's in it now - particles.
The more interesting question (at least to me) is: What caused the Big Bang?
The particles that would, eventually, be Larry, brushed up against the particles that would, eventually, be Kathy.
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :D :D :D :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :spit:
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Moonbat
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Pisa-Carp
The question may not mean anything if it does the answer won't satisfy us (e.g. an answer might be that it was the collision of two branes floating in a much dimensional space or it might be it was caused by the universe collapsing on itself at an earlier point in time). Whatever answer you give the question of "but what made that" remains, the dilemma remains.

The only solution there can ever be to this 'problem' (i put in scare quotes because i'm not convinced it is a problem at all) is a proof that shows all alternative descriptions are logically impossible that requires the complete unification of physics and mathematics. I don't know if that's even remotely plausible maybe things like Godel prove it can never be. In which case the real underlying issue really is purely psychological.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kenny
Jul 16 2009, 09:17 AM
Perhaps therein lies the problem.

The atheist has a less-marvelous explanation.

Marvelous is nicer.
Well, Kenny, Moonbat is the one who was proposing that his views would lead to something "so much grander and so much more profound than anything that any of the humans who wrote the various religious myths ever dreamt of." So talk to him if you think it is a question of marvelous being nicer.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Quagmire
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kenny
Jul 16 2009, 10:23 AM
Klaus
Jul 16 2009, 10:21 AM
Moonbat
Jul 16 2009, 10:07 AM
Quote:
 

Any idea what was in that Universe? People, beings, God, Gods?


Same stuff that's in it now - particles.
The more interesting question (at least to me) is: What caused the Big Bang?
and what caused what caused the big bang?

and what caused that?

and what caused that?

Yawn!
Actually, I find these fascinating questions, and not 'yawn'-able at all.

Brane theory has some ideas as to what caused the big bang. The collision of neighboring branes. And as such, many big bangs are produced from many collisions, spawning many universes and many dimensions. I find that stuff far more interesting and 'marvelous' than mythological stories limited by the imaginations of an ancient people.

I find the universe fascinating, and thoughts of what is beyond our understanding, and by extension, what cannot be grasped by our current mental apparatus, captivates my imagination. I dont understand the need to make sure the story has a happy ending, or someplace to go when I'm all dressed up. I'd rather seek truth, than convince myself of some score in my favor. For after all, the truth is the truth, regardless of what one believes. And that truth does indeed apply to all people.
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Quagmire
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Quagmire
Jul 16 2009, 10:35 AM
For after all, the truth is the truth, regardless of what one believes. And that truth does indeed apply to all people.
But I guess I gotta recant on even this. Perhaps the nature of reality is one that does in fact NOT support an absolute truth, and that realities may be individual and subjective, and thought and matter and truth are not separate, but interwoven, as much science fiction has even stabbed at.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Quagmire
Jul 16 2009, 10:35 AM
I dont understand the need to make sure the story has a happy ending, or someplace to go when I'm all dressed up. I'd rather seek truth, than convince myself of some score in my favor. For after all, the truth is the truth, regardless of what one believes. And that truth does indeed apply to all people.
QFT. :P


Seriously though I agree.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Moonbat
Jul 16 2009, 10:31 AM
The question may not mean anything if it does the answer won't satisfy us (e.g. an answer might be that it was the collision of two branes floating in a much dimensional space or it might be it was caused by the universe collapsing on itself at an earlier point in time). Whatever answer you give the question of "but what made that" remains, the dilemma remains.

The only solution there can ever be to this 'problem' (i put in scare quotes because i'm not convinced it is a problem at all) is a proof that shows all alternative descriptions are logically impossible that requires the complete unification of physics and mathematics. I don't know if that's even remotely plausible maybe things like Godel prove it can never be. In which case the real underlying issue really is purely psychological.
Why are you saying it is meaningless? It is maybe unknowable in that it cannot be determined by scientific means, but I'd say that this does not render it meaningless.

For example, somebody might have committed the "perfect murder", such that there are no traces whatsoever, but this does not render the question "who is the murderer?" meaningless.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Moonbat
Jul 16 2009, 09:35 AM
Quote:
 

That's where I assumed you were going-- option 3 --
so on the same terms the universe is not only self aware but eats, sleeps (at which point it is not aware) and takes a dump. What a marvelous universe!!! :)


All the phrase does is draw attention to what we are and what we are part of. The dynamics of the universe are associated with awareness (and we are that awareness) that is the sense in which the universe is aware. Our minds are mirrors through which the world is reflected.
Then it is an incorrect phrase to describe something. The universe is not self aware. Only human beings in the universe (as far as we know) are self aware/conscious/rational. But it makes nice poetry. :thumb:

I still don't see how even if we plumbed the depths of material existence, and got to understand fully the mathematics, the chemistry and the physics of all matter, that would lead to any particularly grand or profound narrative -- it would just be an extended version of understanding the multiplication tables. Once we fully understand something, it no longer interests us. The mind is "made" (or as you might have it, randomly capable) for infinity, not for finitude. So the mind would in the end be bored knowing all things -- a grand cosmic joke that the mind is really in the prison of knowability, limited by its very existential composition.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Jul 16 2009, 10:01 AM

When God stubs his toe, what does he say?

Assuming of course that evolution has appendaged Him with a toe. If so, is God bipedal? If not, does God then pseudopod His omnipresence about the universe? Or is He simply legless and just bums around at will?


Although probably agnostic, I reserve the right to be an unrepentant iconoclast with regards to relgious orthodoxy in general and Christianity in particular.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Quagmire
Jul 16 2009, 10:43 AM
Quagmire
Jul 16 2009, 10:35 AM
For after all, the truth is the truth, regardless of what one believes. And that truth does indeed apply to all people.
But I guess I gotta recant on even this. Perhaps the nature of reality is one that does in fact NOT support an absolute truth, and that realities may be individual and subjective, and thought and matter and truth are not separate, but interwoven, as much science fiction has even stabbed at.
There are some things you can be sure of.

Others not.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
Only human beings in the universe (as far as we know) are self aware/conscious/rational irrational.


FIxed it for you! ;)
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
This will be the longest thread ever.

89, jump in.
The water's fine.

Thanks Crash.
Are you jerking off now?
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Quagmire
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kenny
Jul 16 2009, 10:50 AM
Quagmire
Jul 16 2009, 10:43 AM
Quagmire
Jul 16 2009, 10:35 AM
For after all, the truth is the truth, regardless of what one believes. And that truth does indeed apply to all people.
But I guess I gotta recant on even this. Perhaps the nature of reality is one that does in fact NOT support an absolute truth, and that realities may be individual and subjective, and thought and matter and truth are not separate, but interwoven, as much science fiction has even stabbed at.
There are some things you can be sure of.

Others not.
I dont necessarily agree. conventional wisdom would support your claim, and is certainly a practical and functional axiom. But there's quite possibly some "behind the scenes" stuff, that when revealed, may pull all our understanding of anything right out from under us. We used to be conclusively sure of gravity. Drop an apple. QED. Now, we understand its acutally an illusion caused by the fabric of spacetime being warped by dense objects. wtf?
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