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Keep It Up, Dick
Topic Started: May 14 2009, 05:34 AM (407 Views)
QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 09:31 PM
QuirtEvans
May 14 2009, 12:58 PM
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 12:48 PM
John D'Oh
May 14 2009, 10:54 AM
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 10:38 AM
You probably think the Reps only stand a chance by moving left, but that movement has observably weakened the party.
In my opinion, the best chance the Republican Party has is to move to the right fiscally and to the left socially. They can then get away from telling other people how to live, and beat the Democrats with more common-sense economics. Bush appeared to do the opposite. A cynic would say that approach offered short term rewards with less effort. Let's face it, cutting spending is freaking difficult. Telling others how they should behave has always been easy.
It is a cartoonish view that Republicans are interested in telling others how to live.

A meaningful divide might look at the conservative view of the purpose of societal regulation to promote the over all well being of the society and all its members (hence, the promotion of the traditional family, pro life, strong military for defense, strong on law enforcement, limited government with limited taxes, freedom to act as long as others are not harmed, a stable system of laws and justice to ensure equality among all members, etc) vs a liberal view of the purpose of social regulations (which I'll let the leftists explain the goals and benefits of that so that I don't make a cartoonish view of the Democrats).
That's not a description of what Republicans actually believe, that's just advertising.

As just one example:

Quote:
 
strong on law enforcement


Except as it pertains to gun ownership. The single most effective way to reduce violent crime ... get the guns out of the hands of the perps ... is off the table as far as Republicans are concerned.

Oh, and while you're at it, keep taxes low, which will make funding strong law enforcement effectively impossible.

As another:

Quote:
 
promote the over all well being of the society and all its members


Well hell, who's against that? The rubber doesn't hit the road until you have to figure out how to go about promoting the overall well-being of society and all of its members. That's where the policy differences occur.

It doesn't surprise me that rather than to give an serious accounting of your own position you could only snipe at what I wrote.

You only proved my point that it is impossible for someone on the other end of the spectrum to give an adequate accounting of what you don't personally believe. You make obvious caricatures of your opponents' positions.

Which is why I left the leftist position open ended. And you wouldn't even risk stepping up to the plate.

I don't work for you, and have no responsibility to repeat for you the list that I posted here the last time you asked. Go look if you want to find it.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
You must admit it would be useful in the context of this discussion.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
I agree, reference to what I have written previously ... on more than one occasion, and at least once in response to a request by IT ... would be useful.

However, I don't have it saved in a Word document, and I don't wish to search for it or recreate it yet again, when it's obvious that IT didn't pay attention the last time he asked.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 09:47 PM
John D'Oh
May 14 2009, 04:00 PM
I think I prefer my cartoonish view of them as self-righteous assholes pandering to the televangelist brigade to all that clever stuff what you wrote. I have a very low opinion of conservative politicians as well as so-called liberal politicians, and all the clever maneuvering in the world is unlikely to change that.

Let's face it, any f*cking cretin can run on a ticket of 'supporting family values', 'being tough on crime', and supporting a 'more compassionate society'. The words mean nothing, as is borne out by experience.

If someone would run on a ticket of 'Cut spending, stop being an asshole' I might consider voting for them.
Yes, I understand that you prefer that view. It is much easier than having to really think through what someone you disagree with is really on about.
I disagree with your opinion regarding the relative merits of two parties. You are unstinting in your condemnation of Democrats, much less so in your defence of the Republicans. If I didn't know better, I'd suspect you had shares in the GOP.

This isn't about the differences between 'conservatism' and 'liberalism', it's about the actual people people running your two major parties. With a few exceptions, they're bloody awful.

So my view is cartoonish. Maybe there's a reason. The last election was like a very, very, very long, bad cartoon, or more accurately a badly written melodrama. 'Aging, war hero with heart of gold, with plucky young country-girl made good competes with messianic figure, righting the wrongs of 400 years of oppression.' Give me a f*cking break - it's a sodding soap opera. Sadly, 'That's All Folks' just means 'See you in a couple of years'.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Spot on, John.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuirtEvans
May 15 2009, 02:21 AM
I don't work for you, and have no responsibility to repeat for you the list that I posted here the last time you asked. Go look if you want to find it.
Punting again, huh Quirt?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
John D'Oh
May 15 2009, 04:33 AM
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 09:47 PM
John D'Oh
May 14 2009, 04:00 PM
I think I prefer my cartoonish view of them as self-righteous assholes pandering to the televangelist brigade to all that clever stuff what you wrote. I have a very low opinion of conservative politicians as well as so-called liberal politicians, and all the clever maneuvering in the world is unlikely to change that.

Let's face it, any f*cking cretin can run on a ticket of 'supporting family values', 'being tough on crime', and supporting a 'more compassionate society'. The words mean nothing, as is borne out by experience.

If someone would run on a ticket of 'Cut spending, stop being an asshole' I might consider voting for them.
Yes, I understand that you prefer that view. It is much easier than having to really think through what someone you disagree with is really on about.
I disagree with your opinion regarding the relative merits of two parties.
What disagreement about the relative merits are you talking about?

I left the opposition party position open for liberals/leftists/Democrats to speak for themselves. Quirt got all snippy about "Well hell, who's against that?". I would expect that no one is against promoting the over all well being of the society and all its members, but I will leave it to the Left to construct their own thoughts about that in language and patterns of thought that are typical to their way of thinking.

Quote:
 
You are unstinting in your condemnation of Democrats, much less so in your defence of the Republicans. If I didn't know better, I'd suspect you had shares in the GOP.

You just haven't been paying attention. I am not a republican. If I saw the democrats holding out something that looked like a common good platform (where the role of the government was more limited to providing for the common good and the accommodation of public goods) instead of redistributing private goods through taxation and entitlement programs, and had some consistent legal ethic that protected innocent human beings before birth-- much like the Democrats were before 1968 -- I'd be all in favor of them.

I come from historically Democrat, union, Catholic east coast families from both my parents.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
ivorythumper
May 15 2009, 01:07 PM
QuirtEvans
May 15 2009, 02:21 AM
I don't work for you, and have no responsibility to repeat for you the list that I posted here the last time you asked. Go look if you want to find it.
Punting again, huh Quirt?
Nope. Given that you didn't pay attention last time, I don't plan to spin my wheels every time you get a thought in your head.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
ivorythumper
May 15 2009, 01:18 PM
You just haven't been paying attention.
I do tend to lose interest after the 17th paragraph

(j/k :sombrero: )
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I think we need a good fight around here. Too much pent up hostility.

Larry needs to get well fast. :lol:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuirtEvans
May 15 2009, 02:00 PM
ivorythumper
May 15 2009, 01:07 PM
QuirtEvans
May 15 2009, 02:21 AM
I don't work for you, and have no responsibility to repeat for you the list that I posted here the last time you asked. Go look if you want to find it.
Punting again, huh Quirt?
Nope. Given that you didn't pay attention last time, I don't plan to spin my wheels every time you get a thought in your head.
You spin your wheels often enough to take snipes at what I write -- I suppose that is far easier for you than actually having an original thought, and less risky than putting an original idea out there for consideration.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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