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Keep It Up, Dick
Topic Started: May 14 2009, 05:34 AM (406 Views)
QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/13/AR2009051303789.html?hpid=topnews
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I agree that he is doing the right thing, personally. Who else is going to stand up?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Is this an article about Cialis?
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
May 14 2009, 05:41 AM
I agree that he is doing the right thing, personally. Who else is going to stand up?
That's not the question, really. The question is whether he does more harm than good to the cause.

Personally, I'm happy to see Dick Cheney be the face of the Republican Party 24/7. All Dick, all the time.

It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
Frank_W
May 14 2009, 05:41 AM
Is this an article about Cialis?
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Knowing Quirt, I'm sure he picked that wording on purpose.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuirtEvans
May 14 2009, 05:45 AM
That's not the question, really. The question is whether he does more harm than good to the cause.

Personally, I'm happy to see Dick Cheney be the face of the Republican Party 24/7. All Dick, all the time.

For him, I suspect the cause is America, not party politics. Good for him. He is both shaking the tree of bad fruit in the Rep party and calling the Dems bluff about all their saber rattling.

You probably think the Reps only stand a chance by moving left, but that movement has observably weakened the party.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 10:38 AM
You probably think the Reps only stand a chance by moving left, but that movement has observably weakened the party.
In my opinion, the best chance the Republican Party has is to move to the right fiscally and to the left socially. They can then get away from telling other people how to live, and beat the Democrats with more common-sense economics. Bush appeared to do the opposite. A cynic would say that approach offered short term rewards with less effort. Let's face it, cutting spending is freaking difficult. Telling others how they should behave has always been easy.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
In otherwords John D'Oh, the Republicans need take on a more libertarian flavour.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I'd have to agree with that.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
John D'Oh
May 14 2009, 10:54 AM
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 10:38 AM
You probably think the Reps only stand a chance by moving left, but that movement has observably weakened the party.
In my opinion, the best chance the Republican Party has is to move to the right fiscally and to the left socially. They can then get away from telling other people how to live, and beat the Democrats with more common-sense economics. Bush appeared to do the opposite. A cynic would say that approach offered short term rewards with less effort. Let's face it, cutting spending is freaking difficult. Telling others how they should behave has always been easy.
It is a cartoonish view that Republicans are interested in telling others how to live.

A meaningful divide might look at the conservative view of the purpose of societal regulation to promote the over all well being of the society and all its members (hence, the promotion of the traditional family, pro life, strong military for defense, strong on law enforcement, limited government with limited taxes, freedom to act as long as others are not harmed, a stable system of laws and justice to ensure equality among all members, etc) vs a liberal view of the purpose of social regulations (which I'll let the leftists explain the goals and benefits of that so that I don't make a cartoonish view of the Democrats).
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 12:48 PM
John D'Oh
May 14 2009, 10:54 AM
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 10:38 AM
You probably think the Reps only stand a chance by moving left, but that movement has observably weakened the party.
In my opinion, the best chance the Republican Party has is to move to the right fiscally and to the left socially. They can then get away from telling other people how to live, and beat the Democrats with more common-sense economics. Bush appeared to do the opposite. A cynic would say that approach offered short term rewards with less effort. Let's face it, cutting spending is freaking difficult. Telling others how they should behave has always been easy.
It is a cartoonish view that Republicans are interested in telling others how to live.

A meaningful divide might look at the conservative view of the purpose of societal regulation to promote the over all well being of the society and all its members (hence, the promotion of the traditional family, pro life, strong military for defense, strong on law enforcement, limited government with limited taxes, freedom to act as long as others are not harmed, a stable system of laws and justice to ensure equality among all members, etc) vs a liberal view of the purpose of social regulations (which I'll let the leftists explain the goals and benefits of that so that I don't make a cartoonish view of the Democrats).
That's not a description of what Republicans actually believe, that's just advertising.

As just one example:

Quote:
 
strong on law enforcement


Except as it pertains to gun ownership. The single most effective way to reduce violent crime ... get the guns out of the hands of the perps ... is off the table as far as Republicans are concerned.

Oh, and while you're at it, keep taxes low, which will make funding strong law enforcement effectively impossible.

As another:

Quote:
 
promote the over all well being of the society and all its members


Well hell, who's against that? The rubber doesn't hit the road until you have to figure out how to go about promoting the overall well-being of society and all of its members. That's where the policy differences occur.

It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Phlebas
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Bull-Carp
So, are elected officials in the Rep. party saying "don't teach sex education, teach abstinence." Sex outside of marriage is a sin. Homosexuality is a sin?
If so, regardless or the merits of what they're saying, they're telling people how to live their lives. They would do better as a party if they moved away from that.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
QuirtEvans
May 14 2009, 12:58 PM
That's not a description of what Republicans actually believe, that's just advertising.

As just one example:

Quote:
 
strong on law enforcement


Except as it pertains to gun ownership. The single most effective way to reduce violent crime ... get the guns out of the hands of the perps ... is off the table as far as Republicans are concerned.

Oh, and while you're at it, keep taxes low, which will make funding strong law enforcement effectively impossible.
Wow, two canards in one paragraph. Not a new record, mind you, but still pretty impressive.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
Phlebas
May 14 2009, 01:11 PM
So, are elected officials in the Rep. party saying "don't teach sex education, teach abstinence." Sex outside of marriage is a sin. Homosexuality is a sin?
If so, regardless or the merits of what they're saying, they're telling people how to live their lives. They would do better as a party if they moved away from that.
And yet, the Dems do the same in the opposite direction.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Phlebas
May 14 2009, 01:11 PM
Homosexuality is a sin?
No it only counts as an abomination and even then not quite as serious as sex outside of marriage which falls under fornication. Eating shellfish on the other hand is explicitly forbidden but nevertheless ignored by policymakers.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Phlebas
May 14 2009, 01:11 PM
So, are elected officials in the Rep. party saying "don't teach sex education, teach abstinence." Sex outside of marriage is a sin. Homosexuality is a sin?
If so, regardless or the merits of what they're saying, they're telling people how to live their lives. They would do better as a party if they moved away from that.
I agree Sex education is not - should not be, anyway - a federal issue at all. Stick to knitting and let these things play out at the state and local level.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 12:48 PM
John D'Oh
May 14 2009, 10:54 AM
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 10:38 AM
You probably think the Reps only stand a chance by moving left, but that movement has observably weakened the party.
In my opinion, the best chance the Republican Party has is to move to the right fiscally and to the left socially. They can then get away from telling other people how to live, and beat the Democrats with more common-sense economics. Bush appeared to do the opposite. A cynic would say that approach offered short term rewards with less effort. Let's face it, cutting spending is freaking difficult. Telling others how they should behave has always been easy.
It is a cartoonish view that Republicans are interested in telling others how to live.

A meaningful divide might look at the conservative view of the purpose of societal regulation to promote the over all well being of the society and all its members (hence, the promotion of the traditional family, pro life, strong military for defense, strong on law enforcement, limited government with limited taxes, freedom to act as long as others are not harmed, a stable system of laws and justice to ensure equality among all members, etc) vs a liberal view of the purpose of social regulations (which I'll let the leftists explain the goals and benefits of that so that I don't make a cartoonish view of the Democrats).
I think I prefer my cartoonish view of them as self-righteous assholes pandering to the televangelist brigade to all that clever stuff what you wrote. I have a very low opinion of conservative politicians as well as so-called liberal politicians, and all the clever maneuvering in the world is unlikely to change that.

Let's face it, any f*cking cretin can run on a ticket of 'supporting family values', 'being tough on crime', and supporting a 'more compassionate society'. The words mean nothing, as is borne out by experience.

If someone would run on a ticket of 'Cut spending, stop being an asshole' I might consider voting for them.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
Would, "Cut spending, stop being an asshat" work? You know, the slogan still has to pass the censors.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Certainly not. Pandering to blue-haired ladies who are afraid of the word 'ass' would inevitably lead to perdition.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Phlebas
May 14 2009, 01:11 PM
So, are elected officials in the Rep. party saying "don't teach sex education, teach abstinence." Sex outside of marriage is a sin. Homosexuality is a sin?
If so, regardless or the merits of what they're saying, they're telling people how to live their lives. They would do better as a party if they moved away from that.
At least Republicans tell you how to live your life. Democrats are more like the Borg, - assimilate or die.

Give 'em Hell!, Dick...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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NAK
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Senior Carp
Frank_W
May 14 2009, 05:41 AM
Is this an article about Cialis?
BWAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA! :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

I don't need to read the article. This post made my day, Generalissimo Franko. :D
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuirtEvans
May 14 2009, 12:58 PM
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 12:48 PM
John D'Oh
May 14 2009, 10:54 AM
ivorythumper
May 14 2009, 10:38 AM
You probably think the Reps only stand a chance by moving left, but that movement has observably weakened the party.
In my opinion, the best chance the Republican Party has is to move to the right fiscally and to the left socially. They can then get away from telling other people how to live, and beat the Democrats with more common-sense economics. Bush appeared to do the opposite. A cynic would say that approach offered short term rewards with less effort. Let's face it, cutting spending is freaking difficult. Telling others how they should behave has always been easy.
It is a cartoonish view that Republicans are interested in telling others how to live.

A meaningful divide might look at the conservative view of the purpose of societal regulation to promote the over all well being of the society and all its members (hence, the promotion of the traditional family, pro life, strong military for defense, strong on law enforcement, limited government with limited taxes, freedom to act as long as others are not harmed, a stable system of laws and justice to ensure equality among all members, etc) vs a liberal view of the purpose of social regulations (which I'll let the leftists explain the goals and benefits of that so that I don't make a cartoonish view of the Democrats).
That's not a description of what Republicans actually believe, that's just advertising.

As just one example:

Quote:
 
strong on law enforcement


Except as it pertains to gun ownership. The single most effective way to reduce violent crime ... get the guns out of the hands of the perps ... is off the table as far as Republicans are concerned.

Oh, and while you're at it, keep taxes low, which will make funding strong law enforcement effectively impossible.

As another:

Quote:
 
promote the over all well being of the society and all its members


Well hell, who's against that? The rubber doesn't hit the road until you have to figure out how to go about promoting the overall well-being of society and all of its members. That's where the policy differences occur.

It doesn't surprise me that rather than to give an serious accounting of your own position you could only snipe at what I wrote.

You only proved my point that it is impossible for someone on the other end of the spectrum to give an adequate accounting of what you don't personally believe. You make obvious caricatures of your opponents' positions.

Which is why I left the leftist position open ended. And you wouldn't even risk stepping up to the plate.

The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Phlebas
May 14 2009, 01:11 PM
So, are elected officials in the Rep. party saying "don't teach sex education, teach abstinence." Sex outside of marriage is a sin. Homosexuality is a sin?
If so, regardless or the merits of what they're saying, they're telling people how to live their lives. They would do better as a party if they moved away from that.
You are conflating what some members of the Republican party might hold with conservative principles.

"Sin" is not a category for political discussion, it is a category for theological discussion. The real question is "what sort of policies are best advanced for the common good?".

Is monogamous, stable, permanent heterosexual marriage something that society ought to preference? The argument is made on the grounds of stable societal structures in which future citizens are engendered and reared. Do other forms of relationship have such long term social importance?

Should sexual activity among people not yet ready to bear the responsibility of children be encouraged or discouraged via social policy?

I think that you make the mistake of thinking (and in my estimation making another cartoonish view) that public policy is some how telling someone how to live on a micromanagement level. It is not telling people how to live their lives, but advocating social policy that empirically seems to promote how to live well both as an individual and as a member of society.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
John D'Oh
May 14 2009, 04:00 PM
I think I prefer my cartoonish view of them as self-righteous assholes pandering to the televangelist brigade to all that clever stuff what you wrote. I have a very low opinion of conservative politicians as well as so-called liberal politicians, and all the clever maneuvering in the world is unlikely to change that.

Let's face it, any f*cking cretin can run on a ticket of 'supporting family values', 'being tough on crime', and supporting a 'more compassionate society'. The words mean nothing, as is borne out by experience.

If someone would run on a ticket of 'Cut spending, stop being an asshole' I might consider voting for them.
Yes, I understand that you prefer that view. It is much easier than having to really think through what someone you disagree with is really on about.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
I'd like to hear from the Left about their views on the goals, structure, and limitations of social regulation.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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