Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
Big Brother; has got his eyes on you
Topic Started: May 13 2009, 11:18 AM (335 Views)
big al
Member Avatar
Bull-Carp
Quote:
 
Asking a Machine to Spot Threats Human Eyes Miss
Posted May 11, 2009
ANDREW VANACORE

The surveillance cameras at Big Y, a Massachusetts grocery chain, are not just passively recording customers and staff. They're studying checkout lines for signs of "sweethearting."

That's when cashiers use subtle tricks to pass free goods to friends: obscuring the bar code, slipping an item behind the scanner, passing two items at a time but charging for one.

There simply aren't enough watchful human eyes to keep it from happening. So Big Y is using technology to block it — with implications far beyond dishonest cashiers.

Mathematical algorithms embedded in the stores' new security system pick out sweethearting on their own. There's no need for a security guard watching banks of video monitors or reviewing hours of grainy footage. When the system thinks it's spotted evidence, it alerts management on a computer screen and offers up the footage.

The possibilities that researchers envision for this kind of technology have the ring of science fiction. Think of systems that spot abandoned packages on a train platform or alert an airline crew to a potential terrorist on board. Already, cities like Chicago have invested in "anomaly detection" cameras around town, linked to emergency headquarters. The city plans to announce this week that it is using the technology at Navy Pier, one of Chicago's best-known attractions.

But just how smart have these cameras really become?

"Some of the claims that are made are just ridiculous," says Oliver Vellacott, the chief executive of IndigoVision, a British company that makes video-analysis technology. "That you're going to spot suspicious behavior in people about to stab someone on the street."

Big Y's security system comes from a Cambridge, Mass.-based company called StopLift Inc. The technology works by scouring video pixels for various gestures and deciding whether they add up to a normal transaction at the register or not.

In the middle of a six-month trial, Mark Gaudette, Big Y's head of loss prevention, decided he'd seen enough and began rolling out the system in all of the chain's 58 locations.

"We realized that we had a problem with training," Gaudette said, explaining that in many cases cashiers didn't realize they were missing the scanner. "Most folks are just distracted."

He would not say how much the company is spending on the technology, but said he expects to save up to $3 million a year by using it.

As a test case, Big Y's success may be misleading. Cameras in grocery stores have a limited area to keep an eye on. They look for only a few sets of defined behaviors that may signal a cashier is not charging the customer. And they don't have to catch every thief to save a store money.

The task grows much more complicated if you're trying to, say, spot the one hijacker among a plane full of innocent passengers.

Yet that is entirely possible, according to some researchers. Dr. James Ferryman leads a team at Britain's University of Reading that joined a European consortium last year with just that goal in mind. The European Union put up part of the funding.

Using a mock-up of an Airbus, the researchers tested camera systems that would identify threats inside passenger planes. Some of the cameras on board, Ferryman said, focused on a passenger's face and upper torso, looking for telltale signs that someone may be up to no good — heavy sweating, for instance.

A central computer would take on the job of compiling data from the cameras — and from audio sensors and the plane itself, among other sources — and deciding whether a credible threat existed before alerting the crew.

But giving a camera the ability to sniff out unruly behavior or what Ferryman called "the potential beginnings of a terrorist action" requires accounting for a huge number of variables that could affect passengers' behavior. Is the plane on a short domestic flight or a 12-hour trans-Atlantic haul? Are there mostly business customers on board or families headed for a vacation? Is the plane landing or taking off?

"A threat in one particular situation may not be in another," Ferryman said. "You don't want a system where the cabin crew is constantly being given false alerts."

For all of the complexity, Ferryman said the testing done so far leaves him confident that automated threat detectors will emerge — assuming regulations would prod airlines into paying extra for planes outfitted with the systems.

Officials in Chicago are already sold on the idea that cameras can detect a variety of threats. The city announced plans in 2004 to build a more intelligent surveillance system, using cameras to tip off police about possible terrorist threats such as an abandoned package or a truck circling a skyscraper.

IBM Corp. installed the technology last year. It's now out of the pilot stage and connected to hundreds of cameras around the city.

The system can make sense of data captured by separate cameras. For instance, one camera sees a car coming to a stop and another reads its license plate, and the system tells city officials a BMW belonging to John Doe just illegally parked on Michigan Avenue.

Privacy watchdogs have raised concerns. Is surveillance less invasive when a computer rather than a human is doing the watching? The Illinois chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union says the answer is unclear, because the public has little evidence the system really works or that checks are in place to prevent abuse.

"What we'd really like to see is more public input into the whole process — that before there are new systems or cameras put online, there is a way for the public to have real, meaningful input into whether this system is desirable, or effective or nonintrusive," said Ed Yohnka, a spokesman for the Illinois ACLU.

Ray Orozco, Chicago's head of emergency management, is cagey about offering details. He said he can't reveal specific threats the system may have detected, for fear of compromising security.

He emphasized that no camera in the city offers any view that couldn't be seen from a park bench.

"The individuals out there that pay taxes, they want the cameras," Orozco said. "We haven't had anyone come and say, 'Take the camera out of my neighborhood.'"

As for its effectiveness, Orozco has few doubts. In fact, Chicago is expanding the technology's reach. At Navy Pier, the city is training the same capability on the surrounding waterway, with alerts for unauthorized boats in restricted areas.

"My expectation is it's going to keep Chicago as safe as any big city can be in the U.S.," Orozco said.


Source: Asking a Machine to Spot Threats Human Eyes Miss


Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
One word.

Orwell.
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pianolicious
Senior Carp
Big Brother is our friend. . . He keeps us safe!!! I don't know what you all are complaining about!!! :eek:
Sit tibi vita longa et omnia bona!!! -- Dr. Spock
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Posted Image
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
But surely this is a libertarian's dream!

Big Y is a private enterprise. They can do what they like. Employees aren't forced to work there ... they aren't slaves after all ... and shoppers aren't forced to shop there. Everybody has freedom of choice. Big Y and every other company have the freedom to adopt these sorts of practices, and since they aren't the government, a true libertarian would see nothing to complain about!
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Was I complaining?

I was just pointing out that this smacks of 1984.
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
There's something quite wrong about a grocery chain called Big Y.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mark
May 13 2009, 11:57 AM
Was I complaining?

I was just pointing out that this smacks of 1984.
1984 involved the government watching what you were doing in your own house.

This isn't anything like that.

This is a private company monitoring how its employees and customers behave on private property.

1984 is a poor analogy.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
So applying your logic of the rural pharmacy that was your test case for why a drugstore should not be permitted to withhold dispensing contraceptives, then your point about a private company doing business at it chose would apparently not apply to a rural grocer that was the only place to shop.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Poor analogy or not, I was not complaining. :P
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sue
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
May 13 2009, 11:57 AM
There's something quite wrong about a grocery chain called Big Y.
Indeed. I wonder what the front of the store looks like.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
sue
May 13 2009, 12:21 PM
Mikhailoh
May 13 2009, 11:57 AM
There's something quite wrong about a grocery chain called Big Y.
Indeed. I wonder what the front of the store looks like.
I'm having a hard time keeping our threads straight. Is this the man cold thread?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
That'd be an interesting algorithm to work on.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Renauda
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
big al
May 13 2009, 11:18 AM
Asking a Machine to Spot Threats Human Eyes Miss
Posted May 11, 2009
ANDREW VANACORE

The surveillance cameras at Big Y, a Massachusetts grocery chain, are not just passively recording customers and staff. They're studying checkout lines for signs of "sweethearting.".....



I don't see an issue here. If the store has a problem with ongoing employee theft (in this instance, *sweethearting* is but one form ) and this technology either deters or curtails the problem, then it is a-okay. Business, and in particular retail outlets, have every right to use whatever lawful means available to prevent theft from the premises.

I see nothing Orwellian about it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
ivorythumper
May 13 2009, 12:08 PM
So applying your logic of the rural pharmacy that was your test case for why a drugstore should not be permitted to withhold dispensing contraceptives, then your point about a private company doing business at it chose would apparently not apply to a rural grocer that was the only place to shop.
One minor problem. I'm not a libertarian. I have no problem restricting what a private party can do on their own property, if other important considerations are involved.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
You think Libertarians have a problem restricting private parties from doing something on their property if it violates the rights of others?

You need a serious education on what it means to be a libertarian my friend.
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuirtEvans
May 13 2009, 02:32 PM
ivorythumper
May 13 2009, 12:08 PM
So applying your logic of the rural pharmacy that was your test case for why a drugstore should not be permitted to withhold dispensing contraceptives, then your point about a private company doing business at it chose would apparently not apply to a rural grocer that was the only place to shop.
One minor problem. I'm not a libertarian. I have no problem restricting what a private party can do on their own property, if other important considerations are involved.
That probably explains why you weren't able to make a cogent libertarian argument. :whome:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mark
May 13 2009, 02:35 PM
You think Libertarians have a problem restricting private parties from doing something on their property if it violates the rights of others?

You need a serious education on what it means to be a libertarian my friend.
Exactly what right does a grocery store employee have to commit theft that supersedes the grocery store's private property rights?

Go ahead, edumacate me.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
WTF is wrong with you?
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Good grief. So much for rational conversation.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Frank_W
Member Avatar
Resident Misanthrope
Mikhailoh
May 13 2009, 11:57 AM
There's something quite wrong about a grocery chain called Big Y.
I thought that was a restaurant with an all-you-can-eat buffet.

:unsure:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John D'Oh
Member Avatar
MAMIL
THe Big Y is the best freaking shop ever.

Listen - never mind all this Orwellian sh!t - they have a child-care system. Somebody called Joe looks after my kids while I shop. They play computer games and do colouring, and I go around the store, buy a coffee, and all is well.

I'm quite happy for them to monitor their employees in exchange for this service. In fact, I'd still go if I found that they forced their employees to do silly dances at gun-point if it kept my kids entertained.

You guys need to get your priorities straight.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
You know the private entity doing this is fine with me.

The technology itself is what I was comparing to Orwell.

It smacks of thought-crime detection. It will find its way into government. Then it will be scary and will need to be stopped.

You can choose to work there or not. You can't choose an ever increasing amount of things when it comes to government. Except to kill your baby. :leaving:
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Renauda
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Mark
May 14 2009, 08:45 AM
The technology itself is what I was comparing to Orwell.

It smacks of thought-crime detection. It will find its way into government. Then it will be scary and will need to be stopped.

Truth be known the R&D was probably funded by government and what you see being used industrially and commercially is a watered down version.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Well then my Orwell analogy was not "poor". :P
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Create your own social network with a free forum.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1