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TPB was next...; File sharing continues to be on the outs
Topic Started: Apr 17 2009, 06:09 AM (533 Views)
Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10221943-93.html

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The large penalty--$3.6 million in damages to be paid to the copyright holders--will likely have a discouraging effect on illegal file sharers, according to those in the music business. Four defendants also were each sentenced to a year in jail.


FFS. :(
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
I hope they don't go to iPodrip.com and start looking for people that used the service. :leaving:
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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George K
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Finally
Interesting story on the Judge:
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Well, as it turns out, we now know why we were all relatively surprised: the judge in the case, Thomas Norstrom, is member of the same pro-copyright groups as many of the people representing the entertainment industry in the case.
Sveriges Radio's P3 news programme has found out that judge Thomas Norström is a member of the Swedish Copyright Association. And who are also members of this group? Henrik Pontén, Peter Danowsky and Monique Wadsted, who all three represented the entertainment industry in the case against the Pirate Bay.

There's more, though, in case the above doesn't ring any of your corruption alarm bells (you know, you should have those as a good citizen). Norström also sits on the board of the Swedish Association for the Protection of Industrial Property, a group which advocates stronger copyright laws.

Norström, unsurprisingy, insists there's no conflict of interest here. Obviously, the TPB lawyers kind of disagree with that one, and are advocating a retrial. "I will point that out in my appeal, then the Court of Appeal (Hovrätten) will decide if the district court decision should be set aside and the case revisited," Peter Sunde's lawyer Peter Althin told The Local. Apparently, Althin had managed to get another judge excluded from the trial last year due to similar circumstances.

"This is corruption and decay on a completely inexcusable level," says Rick Falkvinge, leader for the Swedish Pirate Party, "The judge in the most high-profile legal case of the whole year turns out to be a member of a highly partial interest group for one party in the proceedings, and also spend time privately with the prosecuting lawyers. The whole trial must be declared a mistrial and redone from scratch."

This is not a very good showing for the Swedish justice system. The entire internet is following this case, and having a major blunder like this won't go down well with many people. The obvious outcome of this situation is a retrial, because there's clearly a massive conflict of interest here that cannot be overlooked.

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ivorythumper
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A judge in the music industry's pocket?

As Aqua would say, FFS.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Frank_W
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A crooked judge? :darthno: Unpossible!! <_<
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Aqua Letifer
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You have to be ****ing kidding me.

The music industry has already felt up the legislative and executive branches of government; we have to deal with judges now too?

See, this proves my point. It's not about the ethics of file sharing. Not at all. It's about how much the music industry wants to be able to get away with.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Hey Aqua? Can I borrow a bike every day from the store? Don't worry, I'll keep it safe and in excellent shape. I'll share it with a couple of friends, too. That way, they might like it and want to buy one. Or, more likely, borrow one every day, too.

It's no big deal, everybody is doing it.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
Luke's Dad
Apr 24 2009, 06:33 AM
Hey Aqua? Can I borrow a bike every day from the store? Don't worry, I'll keep it safe and in excellent shape. I'll share it with a couple of friends, too. That way, they might like it and want to buy one. Or, more likely, borrow one every day, too.

It's no big deal, everybody is doing it.
The analogy only works if you were to purchase the bike from the store, and then make copies of it for your friends.
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Larry
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Stealing is stealing. I agree that the judge should not have heard the case, and that it deserves a retrial. But the fact remains, stealing is stealing.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Luke's Dad
Apr 24 2009, 06:33 AM
Hey Aqua? Can I borrow a bike every day from the store? Don't worry, I'll keep it safe and in excellent shape. I'll share it with a couple of friends, too. That way, they might like it and want to buy one. Or, more likely, borrow one every day, too.

It's no big deal, everybody is doing it.
Well, there are many different issues with respect to file sharing.

The one I think is totally ridiculous, is this one: say someone bought a bike. They take it home with them, and using their magical duplicator, they make a copy and give it to their friend.

I figure hey, they bought the bike in the first place, it's their call on whether or not they want to make a copy.

Or maybe this one: a guy wants to try out bike X, but we're out of stock/someone else is trying it out/what have you. He likes the bike, but wants to see what it is he's buying first. So we use our own duplicator to give the guy a copy he can try out, before he makes a decision on the real deal.

There are about a half dozen other ways file sharing is used but those are the two I'd really see no problem with if they were legalized.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
TPB does not host any illegal material. You can just as well sue and shut down phone companies because criminals use a phone.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Aqua Letifer
Apr 24 2009, 06:56 AM
Luke's Dad
Apr 24 2009, 06:33 AM
Hey Aqua? Can I borrow a bike every day from the store? Don't worry, I'll keep it safe and in excellent shape. I'll share it with a couple of friends, too. That way, they might like it and want to buy one. Or, more likely, borrow one every day, too.

It's no big deal, everybody is doing it.
Well, there are many different issues with respect to file sharing.

The one I think is totally ridiculous, is this one: say someone bought a bike. They take it home with them, and using their magical duplicator, they make a copy and give it to their friend.

I figure hey, they bought the bike in the first place, it's their call on whether or not they want to make a copy.

Or maybe this one: a guy wants to try out bike X, but we're out of stock/someone else is trying it out/what have you. He likes the bike, but wants to see what it is he's buying first. So we use our own duplicator to give the guy a copy he can try out, before he makes a decision on the real deal.

There are about a half dozen other ways file sharing is used but those are the two I'd really see no problem with if they were legalized.
The problem with this analogy is there is no such thing as a magical duplicator. if there were such a thing you can be sure that bike manufactures would take issue with you duplicating their product.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
JBryan
Apr 24 2009, 07:11 AM
The problem with this analogy is there is no such thing as a magical duplicator. if there were such a thing you can be sure that bike manufactures would take issue with you duplicating their product.
Yes but would they take issue with that because they assume the role of moral crusader, and want to prevent people from doing what's wrong?

Of course not. They'd not want people to duplicate their product, not even because they'd lose money necessarily, but because they want to control what the consumer does with bought-and-paid-for property.

Forget about bikes. I will gladly debate any claim that file sharing takes money away from the music industry. Countless albums have been bought after someone tried them out first using illegal means.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
In my perspective, the situation is pretty clear: If the record companies want to sue somebody, then they must sue the individual persons which provide copies of illegal material on their harddrives - not The Piratebay.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
hey'd not want people to duplicate their product, not even because they'd lose money necessarily, but because they want to control what the consumer does with bought-and-paid-for property.


That's quite the twisted bit of logic you've constructed......

The reality is, you don't seem to understand just what it is you bought. That's one - also, there's not some bunch of sitting around trying to come up with ways to control you. They're simply trying to protect their property.

If you buy a CD, you own a little round piece of plastic. If you want to use it as a frisbee, it you want to use it as a coaster under your drinking glass, heck - if you want to wipe your butt with it, you just go right ahead! But if you decide to decode the information stored on that piece of plastic (ie. listen to it) then we're talking about a totally different issue. You see, you don't own the information stored on that piece of plastic. When you purchased your piece of plastic, you were granted a license to use the information stored on your piece of plastic according to the stipulations and limitations that the license says have been given by that license. To simplify your life and theirs, a legal method was established that allows them to grant you this license and you to accept this license without you and the owner of the information having to schedule an appointment with an attorney and sign papers in order for you to be given this license. It's a little legal phrase that obligates you to the terms of the license you have been given. It's your responsibility to know what those terms are. It's also your legal obligation not to violate those terms. If you do, they have a legal right to protect their interests by pursuing their legal rights.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
Forget about bikes. I will gladly debate any claim that file sharing takes money away from the music industry. Countless albums have been bought after someone tried them out first using illegal means.


One can always find examples of the upside or downside of any situation. One could probably find examples of someone who drank Lysol and lived, but that doesn't change the fact that if you drink Lysol you're probably going to die. For every example of someone who got an illegal copy of an album and was so impressed with it they just had to run out and pay for another copy of it, there will be thousands upon thousands who say "why in the hell should I go buy a copy when I already have one?"

Your argument is one of those false premise arguments that might be convincing to you, but not to anyone seriously looking at both sides of the issue trying to arrive at a balanced opinion.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Larry
Apr 24 2009, 08:29 AM
Quote:
 
hey'd not want people to duplicate their product, not even because they'd lose money necessarily, but because they want to control what the consumer does with bought-and-paid-for property.


That's quite the twisted bit of logic you've constructed......

The reality is, you don't seem to understand just what it is you bought. That's one - also, there's not some bunch of sitting around trying to come up with ways to control you. They're simply trying to protect their property.

If you buy a CD, you own a little round piece of plastic. If you want to use it as a frisbee, it you want to use it as a coaster under your drinking glass, heck - if you want to wipe your butt with it, you just go right ahead! But if you decide to decode the information stored on that piece of plastic (ie. listen to it) then we're talking about a totally different issue. You see, you don't own the information stored on that piece of plastic. When you purchased your piece of plastic, you were granted a license to use the information stored on your piece of plastic according to the stipulations and limitations that the license says have been given by that license. To simplify your life and theirs, a legal method was established that allows them to grant you this license and you to accept this license without you and the owner of the information having to schedule an appointment with an attorney and sign papers in order for you to be given this license. It's a little legal phrase that obligates you to the terms of the license you have been given. It's your responsibility to know what those terms are. It's also your legal obligation not to violate those terms. If you do, they have a legal right to protect their interests by pursuing their legal rights.

Yes, that is the current legal state of affairs with respect to digital property.

My point is that what's legal has nothing to do with right and wrong, and that the law is **** in regards to this issue.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
I understand what your point it. I also understand that your point is fatally flawed.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Yeah, that is one opinion. ^_^

Information technology continues to explode. Each new innovation brings with it about a dozen brand new legal issues. I have a feeling this sort of thing will be contested for many years to come.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Yes, information technology continues to explode. What doesn't change however, is the fact that artists put their blood sweat and tears into their work, and they expect to be paid for it - and that includes covering the costs of all the people it takes to get their efforts produced and marketed.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Frank_W
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Larry
Apr 24 2009, 09:29 AM
Yes, information technology continues to explode. What doesn't change however, is the fact that artists put their blood sweat and tears into their work, and they expect to be paid for it - and that includes covering the costs of all the people it takes to get their efforts produced and marketed.

:yes:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Larry
Apr 24 2009, 09:29 AM
Yes, information technology continues to explode. What doesn't change however, is the fact that artists put their blood sweat and tears into their work, and they expect to be paid for it - and that includes covering the costs of all the people it takes to get their efforts produced and marketed.

I don't disagree with that at all. That's why I don't see a problem with file sharing, in and of itself. I've seen the "reports" produced by RIAA about profit loss due to file sharing but they've been proven to be total ****. (The years they chose to highlight are the years they had a record low in the number of new albums and singles that were produced, and a record high in the number of compilations. It's not that people were illegally downloading the albums, it was that they already had them, not much new stuff was coming out and they didn't want to pay 20 dollars for the songs they already had in their collection.)

If it was proven to me through hard data that file sharing hurts the music industry as a whole, more than it helps, I'd probably change my opinion. I just have no idea how one would go about that.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Larry
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Then let's look at the facts.

1. There is also no hard data to show that file sharing ultimately ends up putting more money into the pockets of those who write, perform, produce, and market the music.
2. Revenue received from the sale of music is sinking like a rock.

That pretty well sums it up as far as I'm concerned.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Moonbat
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Pisa-Carp
Spotify ftw
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
This is a perfect example of why the music industry has no choice but to be aggressive in protecting their interests. Here is a site that will give you all the music you want for free, all while making money themselves off the backs of those who created the very product they are pushing.

How much of their ad and subscription revenue do you think they're going to give to the people who own the music? Right - none. And how loud would they scream if someone stole their money? Right - very loudly.

Thieves. No matter how you dress them up, no matter what kind of lipstick you put on them, they're still nothing more than common, everyday muggers.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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