Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
Remember the "No New Taxes" pledge; Up in Smoke
Topic Started: Apr 1 2009, 04:43 PM (735 Views)
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
QuirtEvans
Apr 2 2009, 04:21 AM
George K
Apr 2 2009, 03:48 AM
Probably more than anyone else here, I know the personal and societal costs of smoking. But in the big picture, it's cheaper for a society to have smokers.

1) They pay more taxes
2) They die earlier

But that's not the point of this thread - at least it wasn't. The point was that Candidate Obama said he'd not raise taxes on the middle and lower classes. They are disproportionately more smokers than the upper class.

Taxes going up.
I don't think you adequately account for the societal costs of secondhand smoke, George.
Oh, and as to your other point ... He's not taxing the middle class, he's taxing a dangerous behavior. I don't really care how that dangerous behavior breaks down by socioeconomic strata. Everyone needs income. Most people need a car. No one needs to smoke.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuantumIvory
Member Avatar
Senior Carp
QuirtEvans
Apr 2 2009, 04:15 AM
Mark
Apr 2 2009, 02:04 AM
QuirtEvans
Apr 1 2009, 11:58 PM
It should be banned.

But since it's politically infeasible to ban it, tax the hell out of it.
What a bunch of BS!

It should not be banned.

And we should not tax the hell out of it.

But then you are a control freak in the extreme.

All at the expense of liberty that people have fought and died for.

People who think like like you are extremely dangerous.

I have always felt the same about you, Mark. Your infantile reactions to the income tax and to the Federal Reserve system have always branded you as dangerously uninformed.
Gee, Mark, being so "dangerously uninformed" on the Federal Reserve seems to put you in the company of two Nobel Laureates. From now on, could you do a little more research before posting your infantile opinions? :)
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
I can't comment on them unless you identify them and link to their opinions so that we can all see exactly what they are saying.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuantumIvory
Member Avatar
Senior Carp
Milton Friedman.
F.A. Hayek.
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Renauda
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Ezra Pound was against central banks as well. He was was also an honest to goodness water carrying fellow traveller of Mussolini's Fascist Party and a nutbob who ended his days in a DC chuckle ranch (the same one that is soon to the HQ of the Dept of Homeland Security).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
QuantumIvory
Apr 2 2009, 04:44 AM
Milton Friedman.
F.A. Hayek.
Quote:
 
I can't comment on them unless you identify them and link to their opinions so that we can all see exactly what they are saying.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
QuirtEvans
Apr 2 2009, 04:26 AM
He's not taxing the middle class, he's taxing a dangerous behavior. I don't really care how that dangerous behavior breaks down by socioeconomic strata. Everyone needs income. Most people need a car. No one needs to smoke.
Fair enough.

I expect that federal gas taxes will not go up, then. :sombrero:

As to secondhand smoke, you're right. Though the effects are measurable, and suffered by innocent people, they are not nearly as beneficial to society as smokers are.

It's like motorcycle helmets: I'm opposed to laws mandating them because we need more organ donors and fewer quadriplegics. ;)
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuantumIvory
Member Avatar
Senior Carp
QuirtEvans
Apr 2 2009, 05:09 AM
QuantumIvory
Apr 2 2009, 04:44 AM
Milton Friedman.
F.A. Hayek.
Quote:
 
I can't comment on them unless you identify them and link to their opinions so that we can all see exactly what they are saying.
Short on time this morning Quirt, but maybe this can get you started:

http://www.fff.org/comment/com0802b.asp
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
QuirtEvans
Apr 2 2009, 04:15 AM
Mark
Apr 2 2009, 02:04 AM
QuirtEvans
Apr 1 2009, 11:58 PM
It should be banned.

But since it's politically infeasible to ban it, tax the hell out of it.
What a bunch of BS!

It should not be banned.

And we should not tax the hell out of it.

But then you are a control freak in the extreme.

All at the expense of liberty that people have fought and died for.

People who think like like you are extremely dangerous.

I have always felt the same about you, Mark. Your infantile reactions to the income tax and to the Federal Reserve system have always branded you as dangerously uninformed.
Infantile? Hardly Quirt. There is nothing childish about individual rights and liberty. Not a damn thing.

You are the one who is dangerously uninformed.

Either that or you simply choose to ignore the facts for your agenda of total government control over the individual.
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
QuantumIvory
Apr 2 2009, 04:32 AM
QuirtEvans
Apr 2 2009, 04:15 AM
Mark
Apr 2 2009, 02:04 AM
QuirtEvans
Apr 1 2009, 11:58 PM
It should be banned.

But since it's politically infeasible to ban it, tax the hell out of it.
What a bunch of BS!

It should not be banned.

And we should not tax the hell out of it.

But then you are a control freak in the extreme.

All at the expense of liberty that people have fought and died for.

People who think like like you are extremely dangerous.

I have always felt the same about you, Mark. Your infantile reactions to the income tax and to the Federal Reserve system have always branded you as dangerously uninformed.
Gee, Mark, being so "dangerously uninformed" on the Federal Reserve seems to put you in the company of two Nobel Laureates. From now on, could you do a little more research before posting your infantile opinions? :)
Seriously.

But then Quirt is never one to let facts get in the way of personal attacks on me.
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Quirt won't read Friedman or Hayek. If it did he would also consider them dangerously uninformed I guess.
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
I suppose Thomas Jefferson was dangerously uninformed too.
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1hp
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp

Quote:
 
It should be banned.

But since it's politically infeasible to ban it, tax the hell out of it.


So using the same logic, automobiles kill a large number of Americans, so ban them or tax the hell out of them to make them unaffordable to all but the rich. Butter clogs the arteries, so ban it or tax the hell out of it. What a bunch of nonsense. Governments are the worst experts at anything, keep them out of my life. This is like that skit in Monty Python about burning witches.

The reason I moved to the US and left the UK was to get away from Goverment and taxes. Now it's starting to look like time to find an island in the South Pacific.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
I will join you!
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
I will too. And I will start up a central bank.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
And you won't live very long. :P
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
:leaving:
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Frank_W
Member Avatar
Resident Misanthrope
I'll head up the mortgage and real estate! w00t!! :wave:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Remember Frank, my one gun holds 28 rounds in the magazine. :lol:
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
And there will be no lawyers!
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Frank_W
Member Avatar
Resident Misanthrope
Yes there will. I'll invite Quirt! :D
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mark
Apr 2 2009, 07:42 AM
I suppose Thomas Jefferson was dangerously uninformed too.
Wow, Thomas Jefferson was opposed to the Federal Reserve system?

Maybe Nostradamus was too.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Central Banking Quirt.

And you call me uninformed?
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
1hp
Apr 2 2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:
 
It should be banned.

But since it's politically infeasible to ban it, tax the hell out of it.


So using the same logic, automobiles kill a large number of Americans, so ban them or tax the hell out of them to make them unaffordable to all but the rich. Butter clogs the arteries, so ban it or tax the hell out of it. What a bunch of nonsense. Governments are the worst experts at anything, keep them out of my life. This is like that skit in Monty Python about burning witches.

The reason I moved to the US and left the UK was to get away from Goverment and taxes. Now it's starting to look like time to find an island in the South Pacific.
Cars have a larger redeeming social purpose than cigarettes. In my opinion, of course, but I'm happy to note that that opinion is shared by the vast majority. If you'd like to get automobiles outlawed on the grounds that they are too dangerous, you are welcome to try, and to see if a majority shares your opinion. You're also welcome to try to get laws passed to protect the individual liberties of cigarette smokers.

For all Mark's bluster and prattle about historical freedoms in America, it just isn't true. We've ALWAYS banned practices that the majority felt were immoral or dangerous. For quite a long time in America, homosexuality was against the law. Sodomy was against the law. There are books and books of the historical, anachronstic laws with moral, ant-libertarian overtones from early days that have never been repealed (i.e., it's against the law somewhere to walk your chicken down Main Street before noon). For example, in Mark's cherished home state of Wisconsin, it was (or perhaps still is) illegal to serve apple pie in public without cheese; making Limburger cheese requires a master cheese maker's license; and it was (or still is) illegal to kiss on a train. In Wisconsin, it's a Class A misdemeanor to wave a burning torch in the air. In Hudson, Wisconsin, screens are supposedly required on all windows from May 1 to October 1. In Brookfield, Wisconsin, tattooing is supposedly illegal, unless done for medical purposes.

You get the picture.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mark
Apr 2 2009, 08:02 AM
Central Banking Quirt.

And you call me uninformed?
I know what central banking is, Mark, thanks.

I also know that the world today is a little different than the world in the late 1800s. It's not apparent that you do.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Create a free forum in seconds.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2