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Remember the "No New Taxes" pledge; Up in Smoke
Topic Started: Apr 1 2009, 04:43 PM (734 Views)
George K
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Finally
Fuggedaboutit.

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PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

WASHINGTON (AP) - One of President Barack Obama's campaign pledges on taxes went up in puffs of smoke Wednesday.

The largest increase in tobacco taxes took effect despite Obama's promise not to raise taxes of any kind on families earning under $250,000 or individuals under $200,000.

This is one tax that disproportionately affects the poor, who are more likely to smoke than the rich.

To be sure, Obama's tax promises in last year's campaign were most often made in the context of income taxes. Not always.

"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

Now in office, Obama, who stopped smoking but has admitted he slips now and then, signed a law raising the tobacco tax nearly 62 cents on a pack of cigarettes, to $1.01. Other tobacco products saw similarly steep increases.

The extra money will be used to finance a major expansion of health insurance for children. That represents a step toward achieving another promise, to make sure all kids are covered.

Obama said in the campaign that Americans could have both—a broad boost in affordable health insurance for the nation without raising taxes on anyone but the rich.

His detailed campaign plan stated that his proposed improvement in health insurance and health technology "is more than covered" by raising taxes on the wealthy alone. It was not based on raising the tobacco tax.

The White House contends Obama's campaign pledge left room for measures such as the one financing children's health insurance.

"The president's position throughout the campaign was that he would not raise income or payroll taxes on families making less than $250,000, and that's a promise he has kept," said White House spokesman Reid H. Cherlin. "In this case, he supported a public health measure that will extend health coverage to 4 million children who are currently uninsured."

In some instances during the campaign, Obama was plainly talking about income, payroll and investment taxes, even if he did not say so.

Other times, his point appeared to be that heavier taxation of any sort on average Americans is the wrong prescription in tough times.

"Listen now," he said in his widely watched nomination acceptance speech, "I will cut taxes—cut taxes—for 95 percent of all working families, because, in an economy like this, the last thing we should do is raise taxes on the middle class."

An unequivocal "any tax" pledge also was heard in the vice presidential debate, another prominent forum.

"No one making less than $250,000 under Barack Obama's plan will see one single penny of their tax raised," Joe Biden said, "whether it's their capital gains tax, their income tax, investment tax, any tax."


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Renauda
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Quote:
 

Now in office, Obama, who stopped smoking but has admitted he slips now and then, signed a law raising the tobacco tax nearly 62 cents on a pack of cigarettes, to $1.01. Other tobacco products saw similarly steep increases...


People are complaining about an increase in tobacco tax? Big effin' deal. Don't want to pay it? Quit smoking or chewing.

Get a grip and get used to it folks. Tobacco and booze should be taxed to the roof. A pack of cigarettes here has been $11.00 (or $100.00 + PST and GST/carton of 200 cigarettes) for at least two or more years.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
We don't live there.
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Axtremus
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Renauda
Apr 1 2009, 04:51 PM
Tobacco and booze should be taxed to the roof.
Diesel and gasoline too, for sure.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I can't bring myself to get upset in the least about an increase in tax on the weed. It's a pro-life stance.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Renauda
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Mark
Apr 1 2009, 05:17 PM
We don't live there.
Perhaps, you should. You might enjoy living in a working confederation.
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George K
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Finally
I understand what you say. If the government wants to tax something, well, then they will. If you don't like it, change the government.

But that's not the point. The point is that Obama said that he won't raise ANY taxes on people making less than $250K (or was it $200?). If you make less than that amount, and taxes on cigarettes go up, guess what?

You paid more taxes.

When I started smoking, I paid 35¢ for a pack of smokes (19¢ at the PX at the VA Hospital - no tax there, you know). I could get a carton for $3.20.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
George K
Apr 1 2009, 05:58 PM
I understand what you say. If the government wants to tax something, well, then they will. If you don't like it, change the government.

But that's not the point. The point is that Obama said that he won't raise ANY taxes on people making less than $250K (or was it $200?). If you make less than that amount, and taxes on cigarettes go up, guess what?

You paid more taxes.

When I started smoking, I paid 35¢ for a pack of smokes (19¢ at the PX at the VA Hospital - no tax there, you know). I could get a carton for $3.20.
Politicians always do this stuff. That great conservative doyenne Margaret Thatcher promised to reduce taxes. She did - she knocked 20% off the top rate of income tax....then she increased VAT (sales tax) to 17.5% (from 8% for 'luxury items' such as sanitary towels).

Needless to say, I didn't see any tax reduction at all even though I didn't buy sanitary towels. Then again, I'd rather have stabbed my own eyes out with pencils than voted for the b!tch.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
So Obama couldn't or wouldn't keep his campaign promise and raised taxes on tobacco.

Happens all the time. Besides it's a luxury tax on the voluntary consumption of an unhealthy, addictive and regulated substance. Might help a few people see the wisdom behind quitting.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
So Obama is no longer the new Jimmy Carter. He's now the new George H.W. Bush.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Same bill Bush vetoed, Obama signed.

I'm reminded of the nursing home resident...a guy who has smoked all his life. He's been in the facility for a little over two years. Long enough for the government to suck up his life savings and other assets, rendering him just another Medicaid recipient.

As a Medicaid recipient, he gets $32/month for his personal use. Personal use being clothes, socks, underwear, toiletries, haircuts and an occasional pack of cigarettes.

He hoards those cigarettes like a bag of gold nuggets, because they are one of his last pleasures...see, if the weather is nice, he likes to talk one of the aides into bringing him a cup of coffee, while he sits on the home's front veranda watching the world go by from his rocking chair throne and taking an occasional puff on one of his carefully hoarded cigarettes.

Thank you, Mr. Obama, for sticking a tax knife through the little people...people who have a completely legal habit, but a habit which you think should be banned.

Why don't you go back to helping run GM into the ground...




The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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George K
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John D'Oh
Apr 1 2009, 06:20 PM
So Obama is no longer the new Jimmy Carter. He's now the new George H.W. Bush.
Nope, he hasn't puked on anyone yet.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
This is so wrong.

The Government should subsidize smoking, cigs should be nearly free.

That way, all the low income people (that are up for the free healthcare, or even now go to the ER) would die young. None of this "keep 'em alive" for years on a vent (that's EXPENSIVE!) , or giving them free healthcare including expensive prescriptions. They'd simply die off at a young age. Benefit to society if people would simply die quick, yes?

Anyways. . . I'm waiting for another uplifting speech about my $13 per week in tax savings, it's been awhile. It will be like winning the lottery (a bit of sarcasm). AND, it will help offset the huge increase in cig taxes here in Oregon, beer tax, the quadrupling of the vehicle registration fees, proposed increases in gas tax, various construction-related permits, and any other fees related to interraction with government.

And that $13/wk. . . It will also help at the grocery store.

Just how stupid are we suppose to pretend to be??
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Look at it this way Rainman, that extra $13.00 will now buy you a pack of smokes each week to help take the edge off your anxiety while you fume about the government.
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JoeB
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Quote:
 
One of President Barack Obama's campaign pledges on taxes went up in puffs of smoke Wednesday.


Won't be the last promise to be broken. Anyone who actually believed an Illinios politician's promises is probably too dumb to vote.
"There are many ingredients in the stew of annoyance." - Bucky Katt
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QuirtEvans
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Jolly
Apr 1 2009, 06:43 PM
Same bill Bush vetoed, Obama signed.

I'm reminded of the nursing home resident...a guy who has smoked all his life. He's been in the facility for a little over two years. Long enough for the government to suck up his life savings and other assets, rendering him just another Medicaid recipient.

As a Medicaid recipient, he gets $32/month for his personal use. Personal use being clothes, socks, underwear, toiletries, haircuts and an occasional pack of cigarettes.

He hoards those cigarettes like a bag of gold nuggets, because they are one of his last pleasures...see, if the weather is nice, he likes to talk one of the aides into bringing him a cup of coffee, while he sits on the home's front veranda watching the world go by from his rocking chair throne and taking an occasional puff on one of his carefully hoarded cigarettes.

Thank you, Mr. Obama, for sticking a tax knife through the little people...people who have a completely legal habit, but a habit which you think should be banned.

Why don't you go back to helping run GM into the ground...




It should be banned.

But since it's politically infeasible to ban it, tax the hell out of it.

You of all people around here (George, too) should know the public costs of cigarette smoking. I find it curious to watch you get worked up about taxing people who smoke cigarettes for the eventual costs of health care related to smoking, but hey, it's your blood pressure, raise it any way you like.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Frank_W
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Wow... Here, I thought Obama most resembled former president Carter, and now I find that he most resembles former president Bush Sr. :unsure:

:lol2: :doh:

He hasn't thrown up on anyone, but manhandling the Queen of England has got to rate right up there... :tongue:
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
QuirtEvans
Apr 1 2009, 11:58 PM
It should be banned.

But since it's politically infeasible to ban it, tax the hell out of it.
What a bunch of BS!

It should not be banned.

And we should not tax the hell out of it.

But then you are a control freak in the extreme.

All at the expense of liberty that people have fought and died for.

People who think like like you are extremely dangerous.

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Phlebas
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Jolly
Apr 1 2009, 06:43 PM
Same bill Bush vetoed, Obama signed.

I'm reminded of the nursing home resident...a guy who has smoked all his life. He's been in the facility for a little over two years. Long enough for the government to suck up his life savings and other assets, rendering him just another Medicaid recipient.

As a Medicaid recipient, he gets $32/month for his personal use. Personal use being clothes, socks, underwear, toiletries, haircuts and an occasional pack of cigarettes.

He hoards those cigarettes like a bag of gold nuggets, because they are one of his last pleasures...see, if the weather is nice, he likes to talk one of the aides into bringing him a cup of coffee, while he sits on the home's front veranda watching the world go by from his rocking chair throne and taking an occasional puff on one of his carefully hoarded cigarettes.

Thank you, Mr. Obama, for sticking a tax knife through the little people...people who have a completely legal habit, but a habit which you think should be banned.

Why don't you go back to helping run GM into the ground...




(Set your violin down on this.) Ok, skip the "Hearts and Flowers." My tax money is paying for this guy's smokes?
I'll pick up his haircuts, clothes, toothpaste, etc. I don't think I should be paying for his coffin nails.

So, if this guy wasn't hoarding his cigs - if, say, he could smoke as much as he wanted to - how much would he smoke? 1 pak, two packs a day? Instead of sitting on the veranda, he'd have been wheeled out the back door.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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George K
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Finally
Probably more than anyone else here, I know the personal and societal costs of smoking. But in the big picture, it's cheaper for a society to have smokers.

1) They pay more taxes
2) They die earlier

But that's not the point of this thread - at least it wasn't. The point was that Candidate Obama said he'd not raise taxes on the middle and lower classes. They are disproportionately more smokers than the upper class.

Taxes going up.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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JBryan
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There was a time in this country when the cost of freedom was significantly higher than some "public costs".
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QuantumIvory
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So, who's buying Mr. Obama's cigarettes for him these days? :smokin:
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QuirtEvans
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Mark
Apr 2 2009, 02:04 AM
QuirtEvans
Apr 1 2009, 11:58 PM
It should be banned.

But since it's politically infeasible to ban it, tax the hell out of it.
What a bunch of BS!

It should not be banned.

And we should not tax the hell out of it.

But then you are a control freak in the extreme.

All at the expense of liberty that people have fought and died for.

People who think like like you are extremely dangerous.

I have always felt the same about you, Mark. Your infantile reactions to the income tax and to the Federal Reserve system have always branded you as dangerously uninformed.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
JBryan
Apr 2 2009, 03:56 AM
There was a time in this country when the cost of freedom was significantly higher than some "public costs".
There was also a time when people were smart enough not to confuse 'freedom' with the ability to afford either cigarettes or the 42" TV set, but not both. :P

This thread is hilarious.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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QuirtEvans
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George K
Apr 2 2009, 03:48 AM
Probably more than anyone else here, I know the personal and societal costs of smoking. But in the big picture, it's cheaper for a society to have smokers.

1) They pay more taxes
2) They die earlier

But that's not the point of this thread - at least it wasn't. The point was that Candidate Obama said he'd not raise taxes on the middle and lower classes. They are disproportionately more smokers than the upper class.

Taxes going up.
I don't think you adequately account for the societal costs of secondhand smoke, George.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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