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Ok, hell!
Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 10:35 PM (3,364 Views)
Wacki Iraqi
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Senior Carp
Hell sounds like a pretty harsh place.......as a punishment for all eternity would go. My question is, is God the designer of hell and it's general system, or is that where God ends and someone new and (supposedly) more powerful steps in? If God has anything to do with the design of hell.......why make it so bad? I'd be for heaven if he made hell a little bit more niggly than heaven for all eternity. What does God say about hell Dewey? The endless amount of tiresome carrots and sticks meant to help us decide whether we're good to each other or not seem childish and manipulative. Anyway, I should wait to get up to speed on what God supposedly says, before I judge the thinking.
You're an atheist when considering Zeus, Apollo, Amon Ra, Mithras, Baal, Thor, Wotan, the Golden Calf and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.........I just go one God further.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
You're posting good questions that I'll be happy to discuss - but at the moment, I'm trying to get a Greek paper done for this evening, and in general, my schedule from 8am Monday through midnight Wednesday doesn't permit for much online conversation. After that, my schedule opens up a bit to merely insane, and I'll be able to give your question the attention it's really due...
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
It's very wimple, Wacki.

Hell is pretty much like Gitmo: you are locked up forever. The main difference is that you are sent to hell only after due process of law (last judgment).
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Wacki Iraqi
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Dewey
Mar 30 2009, 03:33 AM
You're posting good questions that I'll be happy to discuss - but at the moment, I'm trying to get a Greek paper done for this evening, and in general, my schedule from 8am Monday through midnight Wednesday doesn't permit for much online conversation. After that, my schedule opens up a bit to merely insane, and I'll be able to give your question the attention it's really due...
It' ok Dewey, much appreciated.
You're an atheist when considering Zeus, Apollo, Amon Ra, Mithras, Baal, Thor, Wotan, the Golden Calf and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.........I just go one God further.
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Wacki Iraqi
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Klaus
Mar 30 2009, 03:40 AM
It's very wimple, Wacki.

Hell is pretty much like Gitmo: you are locked up forever. The main difference is that you are sent to hell only after due process of law (last judgment).
That's a bit of an empty answer Kluurs, if you don't mind me saying, I know what it is......I just don't get it's principals. What does it provide us with?
You're an atheist when considering Zeus, Apollo, Amon Ra, Mithras, Baal, Thor, Wotan, the Golden Calf and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.........I just go one God further.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I've heard some people suggest that hell is a removal of and from God's love, so in a sense it's created by God, in a sense it's not. As part of that, it could mean that those of us who go to hell just die, and don't have any afterlife, whereas others go to paradise.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Wacki Iraqi
Mar 30 2009, 04:22 AM
Klaus
Mar 30 2009, 03:40 AM
It's very wimple, Wacki.

Hell is pretty much like Gitmo: you are locked up forever. The main difference is that you are sent to hell only after due process of law (last judgment).
That's a bit of an empty answer Kluurs, if you don't mind me saying, I know what it is......I just don't get it's principals. What does it provide us with?
It provides us with security, just like Gitmo ;)
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Well, Wacki IS combative. But I don't know that I'd call him an enemy combatant.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Wacki Iraqi
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Klaus
Mar 30 2009, 04:31 AM
Wacki Iraqi
Mar 30 2009, 04:22 AM
Klaus
Mar 30 2009, 03:40 AM
It's very wimple, Wacki.

Hell is pretty much like Gitmo: you are locked up forever. The main difference is that you are sent to hell only after due process of law (last judgment).
That's a bit of an empty answer Kluurs, if you don't mind me saying, I know what it is......I just don't get it's principals. What does it provide us with?
It provides us with security, just like Gitmo ;)
Security from whom, for who?
You're an atheist when considering Zeus, Apollo, Amon Ra, Mithras, Baal, Thor, Wotan, the Golden Calf and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.........I just go one God further.
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Wacki Iraqi
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John D'Oh
Mar 30 2009, 04:31 AM
I've heard some people suggest that hell is a removal of and from God's love, so in a sense it's created by God, in a sense it's not. As part of that, it could mean that those of us who go to hell just die, and don't have any afterlife, whereas others go to paradise.
I don't believe that view of hell is particularly reflected or purported in Theists thinking john? You're atheist guessing now aren't you?
You're an atheist when considering Zeus, Apollo, Amon Ra, Mithras, Baal, Thor, Wotan, the Golden Calf and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.........I just go one God further.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
No, Wacki, the minister that married Janet and I said the same thing.

Of course we also swapped old pot smoking tales and wine, so who knows?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Wacki Iraqi
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Mikhailoh
Mar 30 2009, 04:39 AM
No, Wacki, the minister that married Janet and I said the same thing.

Of course we also swapped old pot smoking tales and wine, so who knows?
Sorry Mik, you lost me there somewhere, Uh?
You're an atheist when considering Zeus, Apollo, Amon Ra, Mithras, Baal, Thor, Wotan, the Golden Calf and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.........I just go one God further.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
The same thing as D'Oh's post.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Wacki Iraqi
Mar 30 2009, 04:37 AM
John D'Oh
Mar 30 2009, 04:31 AM
I've heard some people suggest that hell is a removal of and from God's love, so in a sense it's created by God, in a sense it's not. As part of that, it could mean that those of us who go to hell just die, and don't have any afterlife, whereas others go to paradise.
I don't believe that view of hell is particularly reflected or purported in Theists thinking john? You're atheist guessing now aren't you?
Not at all - I was brought up a good Christian boy. I think that model makes a lot more sense than the old burning in perpetual agony without any chance of remission, which let's face it isn't exactly the punishment of a regretful but loving father.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
"Your skin rotting and peeling, a fireball spinning in your screaming guts" is something I heard somewhere.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Stuck with you, eh?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
And worms eating you... Forever....

I've heard that one, too. By that point, I was shellshocked by the crazy-assed hellfire and brimstone sermons I'd grown up with, so when I heard that, I thought, "Yeah... Whatever. Worms... Eat me."
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
JBryan
Mar 30 2009, 04:56 AM
"Your skin rotting and peeling, a fireball spinning in your screaming guts" is something I heard somewhere.
...damn, I wish I hadn't eaten that shrimp cocktail!
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Wacki Iraqi
Mar 30 2009, 04:34 AM
Klaus
Mar 30 2009, 04:31 AM
Wacki Iraqi
Mar 30 2009, 04:22 AM
Klaus
Mar 30 2009, 03:40 AM
It's very wimple, Wacki.

Hell is pretty much like Gitmo: you are locked up forever. The main difference is that you are sent to hell only after due process of law (last judgment).
That's a bit of an empty answer Kluurs, if you don't mind me saying, I know what it is......I just don't get it's principals. What does it provide us with?
It provides us with security, just like Gitmo ;)
Security from whom, for who?
I guess this was an unsucessful attempt at humour, then.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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blondie
Bull-Carp
Let's not confuse Kluurs with Klaus ...
2 people, both smart, but 2 different people ...
Is there a pic of you btw Klaus?
:)
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Wacki Iraqi
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Senior Carp
Klaus
Mar 30 2009, 05:08 AM
Wacki Iraqi
Mar 30 2009, 04:34 AM
Klaus
Mar 30 2009, 04:31 AM
Wacki Iraqi
Mar 30 2009, 04:22 AM
Klaus
Mar 30 2009, 03:40 AM
It's very wimple, Wacki.

Hell is pretty much like Gitmo: you are locked up forever. The main difference is that you are sent to hell only after due process of law (last judgment).
That's a bit of an empty answer Kluurs, if you don't mind me saying, I know what it is......I just don't get it's principals. What does it provide us with?
It provides us with security, just like Gitmo ;)
Security from whom, for who?
I guess this was an unsucessful attempt at humour, then.
:)
You're an atheist when considering Zeus, Apollo, Amon Ra, Mithras, Baal, Thor, Wotan, the Golden Calf and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.........I just go one God further.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
blondie
Mar 30 2009, 05:17 AM
Let's not confuse Kluurs with Klaus ...
2 people, both smart, but 2 different people ...
Is there a pic of you btw Klaus?
:)
Yes, you can find a couple of them in the pictures thread. But what about you?
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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PattyP
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Senior Carp
Hell is complete and utter separation from God. Even here, in our fallen world, we are not completely separated from Him. His spirit is here so we are still "connected" to Him.

Think of the complete separation from God as a burning (no pun intended) and insatiable thirst, never able to be quenched.

I've heard it conjectured that in His mercy, He will not let the separated suffer eternally. They will simply cease to exist sometime down the road.

My two cents.

Looking forward to Dewey’s post.

A tired dog is a good dog.

"Dogs' lives are too short...their only fault, really."
A.S. Turnbull
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blondie
Bull-Carp
Klaus
Mar 30 2009, 05:32 AM
blondie
Mar 30 2009, 05:17 AM
Let's not confuse Kluurs with Klaus ...
2 people, both smart, but 2 different people ...
Is there a pic of you btw Klaus?
:)
Yes, you can find a couple of them in the pictures thread. But what about you?
i'm not in pic threads; i don't do these.
i embed myself elsewhere.
read & u shall see.
here:
Posted Image
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Wacki Iraqi
Mar 29 2009, 10:35 PM
Hell sounds like a pretty harsh place.......as a punishment for all eternity would go. My question is, is God the designer of hell and it's general system, or is that where God ends and someone new and (supposedly) more powerful steps in? If God has anything to do with the design of hell.......why make it so bad? I'd be for heaven if he made hell a little bit more niggly than heaven for all eternity. What does God say about hell Dewey? The endless amount of tiresome carrots and sticks meant to help us decide whether we're good to each other or not seem childish and manipulative. Anyway, I should wait to get up to speed on what God supposedly says, before I judge the thinking.
(This isn't as complete a reply as I'd originally hoped, but I have a few extra minutes...)
As with so much else in religious belief, there are a number of views of hell. I'm going to stick to view of hell within the Christian framework. Without getting into a bunch of sub-topics about hell, I'll cut to the chase of most discussions about it - whether the punishment of humans in hell is actually unending.

The majority viewpoint of this question within the Christian faith is that suffering in hell is unending. This has primarily been based on the view that the human soul is inherently immortal, tht it is no more capable of actually ending, or being destroyed or extinguished than might God. This is a belief that is actually different from traditional Jewish thoughts about the question, and it seemss to mostly have entered Christianity through Greek philosophy and thought, via many of the theological writings of the earliest church fathers who had the task of explaining the faith to a non-Jewish, predominantly Greek, world. So, if the soul is inherently immortal, and can never be extinguished, then you've got to have a place for all these souls, whether they're good or bad. And Jesus talks about people being rewarded with unending life, then the place of punishment must also be unending. Therefore, the reasoning went, the suffering in hell must be unending. There are scriptural passages that support this view of hell.

To be honest, I disagree with this. I am a part of what is often called a "significant minority" within the faith that believes that the soul is not inherently immortal, but merely "conditionally" immortal - i.e., immortal solely by God's grace, and as such, the soul may be extinguished if God so chooses. I believe that punishment in hell is for some length of time and in some level of severity, appropriate in God's view, to the evil perpetrated by the individual, and after such time, God will extinguish the soul at the time of final judgment. Those rewarded in the afterlife will not be extinguished in this manner - on the contrary, at the time of final judgment, they will be reunited with a physical body and live in the presence of God for all time. This concept of hell and conditional immortality is often called "Annihiliationism." You can google it, and conditional immortality, for more information. But I believe that the overwhelming majority of scriptural references to hell and human punishment are consistent with this view, rather than the traditional view. I also believe that it is more consistent with the idea of a God who is both the definition of mercy and justice. That's all I've got time for now; have to get to class...
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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