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Dear AIG - I quit.; going after bonuses a mistake
Topic Started: Mar 25 2009, 04:22 AM (1,256 Views)
Copper
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Shortstop

Oh I get your point.

Responsibility can be hard to accept.

The losers here may be tragically misinformed, but still they were willing and this is still a free country.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Or, put a different way, the system is designed to give them comfort that they are being protected, while screwing them.

Your attitude seems to mirror a movie line ... If God didn't want them sheared, he wouldn't have made them sheep.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
Mar 26 2009, 04:34 AM
Oh I get your point.

Responsibility can be hard to accept.

The losers here may be tragically misinformed, but still they were willing and this is still a free country.
You're just regurgitating memes. Do some thinking about, for instance, why we prevent monopolies. If there were no antitrust laws on the books you would be regurgitating the same stuff if someone mentioned that maybe the government should do something about MegaMonopoCorp.

It would be very difficult to extricate oneself from paying for the services of wall street, and even more difficult to shield oneself from the fallout in a meltdown they helped to create.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
So they should provide these services for free? They charge what the market will bear, just like every other service.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Mikhailoh
Mar 26 2009, 06:29 AM
So they should provide these services for free? They charge what the market will bear, just like every other service.
Groan... :doh:
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
Mar 26 2009, 06:29 AM
So they should provide these services for free? They charge what the market will bear, just like every other service.
Again, what the market will bear is very different when you are playing with OPM.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
That may be. But I can tell you this: The average 401K is down 40-50% since last year. My accounts are down 28%. Under the circumstances I consider the fixed percentage management fee I pay a bargain in this environment.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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George K
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Finally
Someone's having a very good crisis.
Quote:
 
A hedge fund manager who predicted the global credit crunch has said the financial crisis has been 'stimulating' and the culmination of his life's work.

George Soros, who predicted the global financial crisis twice before, was one of the few people to anticipate and prepare for the current economic collapse.

Mr Soros said his prediction meant he was better able to brace his Quantum investment fund against the gloabal storm.

But other investors failed to take notice of his prediction and his decision to come out of retirement in 2007 to manage the fund made him $US2.9 billion.

And while the financial crisis continued to deepen across the globe, the 78-year-old still managed to make $1.1 billion last year.

'It is, in a way, the culminating point of my life’s work,' he told national newspaper The Australian.

Soros is one of 25, top hedge fund managers from across Wall Street who have defied the credit crunch crisis to reap a total of $11.6billion (£7.9bn) last year.


I'm waiting for the cries to tax his profits at 90% to come...
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Don't hold your breath.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Mar 26 2009, 07:26 AM
Someone's having a very good crisis.
Quote:
 
A hedge fund manager who predicted the global credit crunch has said the financial crisis has been 'stimulating' and the culmination of his life's work.

George Soros, who predicted the global financial crisis twice before, was one of the few people to anticipate and prepare for the current economic collapse.

Mr Soros said his prediction meant he was better able to brace his Quantum investment fund against the gloabal storm.

But other investors failed to take notice of his prediction and his decision to come out of retirement in 2007 to manage the fund made him $US2.9 billion.

And while the financial crisis continued to deepen across the globe, the 78-year-old still managed to make $1.1 billion last year.

'It is, in a way, the culminating point of my life’s work,' he told national newspaper The Australian.

Soros is one of 25, top hedge fund managers from across Wall Street who have defied the credit crunch crisis to reap a total of $11.6billion (£7.9bn) last year.


I'm waiting for the cries to tax his profits at 90% to come...
Here's the original article where the quote about 'culmination of his life's work' was lifted, apparently out of context:

Quote:
 


Hedge fund manager George Soros says he has finally found his footing in Washington.


A pariah under the Bush administration and largely overlooked by Clinton, Soros says that "at least I will get a hearing" in Washington now.


Soros plans to use the opportunity to advocate radical regulatory and financial reforms that would rein in financiers — including himself.


"It is, in a way, the culminating point of my life’s work," Soros told The Australian News.


"The American election, the financial crisis … it is actually a very stimulating period.”


Soros wants Washington to loosen its grip on the International Monetary Fund; co-ordinate macroeconomic policies between national governments; and create new international banking and market regulatory regimes that oversee derivative financial products and curb speculators.
He knows this will be a hard sell but remains hopeful.


“I am actually fairly optimistic because the problems are recognized and certainly the new team in America understands things pretty well the same way as I do,” Soros notes.


“And I think (British Prime Minister) Gordon Brown does.”


The problem, Soros says, is that what policymakers fear actually has to happen before they take action, which is why it remains likely we will experience more financial crises.


Brown is hosting a roundtable prior to the April 2 meeting of the Group of 20 leaders in London to discuss capital adequacy, attempts to kick-start the global economy and regulatory reform, including tighter hedge fund regulation, Reuters reports.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

Quote:
 
My accounts are down 28%. Under the circumstances I consider the fixed percentage management fee I pay a bargain in this environment.


Must be the only industry in the world where you pay to lose value (money).

I've followed some of this discussion - imho the problem is that persons who work with money, as in financial services, seem to think they should be able to take a cut of what they are dealing. fwiw persons working on manufacturing lines are monitored to make sure they don't leave with any of the manufactured goods. And engineers at Boeing don't get an airplane just because they work with them.

Frankly I think paramedics should be paid more than financial service types (and other professions) but what do I know.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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OperaTenor
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Pisa-Carp
George K
Mar 26 2009, 07:26 AM
Someone's having a very good crisis.
Quote:
 
A hedge fund manager who predicted the global credit crunch has said the financial crisis has been 'stimulating' and the culmination of his life's work.

George Soros, who predicted the global financial crisis twice before, was one of the few people to anticipate and prepare for the current economic collapse.

Mr Soros said his prediction meant he was better able to brace his Quantum investment fund against the gloabal storm.

But other investors failed to take notice of his prediction and his decision to come out of retirement in 2007 to manage the fund made him $US2.9 billion.

And while the financial crisis continued to deepen across the globe, the 78-year-old still managed to make $1.1 billion last year.

'It is, in a way, the culminating point of my life’s work,' he told national newspaper The Australian.

Soros is one of 25, top hedge fund managers from across Wall Street who have defied the credit crunch crisis to reap a total of $11.6billion (£7.9bn) last year.


I'm waiting for the cries to tax his profits at 90% to come...
I didn't know Soros received any bailout money.



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George K
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Finally
OperaTenor
Mar 26 2009, 08:38 AM
I didn't know Soros received any bailout money.

AFAIK, he didn't. But the point is that it's a large profit, made on OPM. He claims he wants to be regulated.

At what percentage? 90%? 50%? 25? How much is too much enough?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Moonbat
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Pisa-Carp
Quote:
 

At what percentage? 90%? 50%? 25? How much is too much enough?


I think the percentage should scale with the amount such that an infinite profit is taxed 100% (and 0 profit is taxed 0%).

Though i guess that still leaves a lot to be decided because lots of curves fit that criteria.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuirtEvans
Mar 26 2009, 04:11 AM
The people who are fiduciaries ... the corporate executives ... don't act like stewards for the shareholders' money. They act like it's a personal piggybank. And the board members and compensation committees don't stop them.
That is at the heart of my criticism Quirt.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Moonbat
Mar 26 2009, 08:44 AM
Quote:
 

At what percentage? 90%? 50%? 25? How much is too much enough?


I think the percentage should scale with the amount such that an infinite profit is taxed 100% (and 0 profit is taxed 0%).
:rolleyes2:
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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OperaTenor
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Pisa-Carp
George K
Mar 26 2009, 08:42 AM
OperaTenor
Mar 26 2009, 08:38 AM
I didn't know Soros received any bailout money.

AFAIK, he didn't. But the point is that it's a large profit, made on OPM. He claims he wants to be regulated.

At what percentage? 90%? 50%? 25? How much is too much enough?
But the point of the 90% tax(which I think is stupid) was to recover bailout money paid out as bonuses, not to tax profit.



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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
1hp
Mar 26 2009, 08:32 AM

Must be the only industry in the world where you pay to lose value (money).

I've followed some of this discussion - imho the problem is that persons who work with money, as in financial services, seem to think they should be able to take a cut of what they are dealing. fwiw persons working on manufacturing lines are monitored to make sure they don't leave with any of the manufactured goods. And engineers at Boeing don't get an airplane just because they work with them.

Frankly I think paramedics should be paid more than financial service types (and other professions) but what do I know.

Certainly manufacturing workers - and every worker - takes their cut of your money. They get paid to build the car. Cars would be pretty cheap if you they'd only work for free. Financial types get paid to manage the money.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
Mar 26 2009, 09:46 AM
1hp
Mar 26 2009, 08:32 AM

Must be the only industry in the world where you pay to lose value (money).

I've followed some of this discussion - imho the problem is that persons who work with money, as in financial services, seem to think they should be able to take a cut of what they are dealing. fwiw persons working on manufacturing lines are monitored to make sure they don't leave with any of the manufactured goods. And engineers at Boeing don't get an airplane just because they work with them.

Frankly I think paramedics should be paid more than financial service types (and other professions) but what do I know.

Certainly manufacturing workers - and every worker - takes their cut of your money. They get paid to build the car. Cars would be pretty cheap if you they'd only work for free. Financial types get paid to manage the money.
Maybe the point is that financial types should be compensated like most people, on an hourly or project or even annual salary basis. Percentage of assets under management leads to distorted outcomes.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Copper
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Shortstop
QuirtEvans
Mar 26 2009, 09:57 AM

Percentage of assets under management leads to distorted outcomes.

That is exactly the reason I left Merrill Lynch.

They were making tons of my money for nothing.

So I went to Schwab and pay a fee for service when needed.

Free markets at work.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Copper
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Shortstop
Horace
Mar 26 2009, 05:01 AM

You're just regurgitating memes. Do some thinking about, for instance, why we prevent monopolies. If there were no antitrust laws on the books you would be regurgitating the same stuff if someone mentioned that maybe the government should do something about MegaMonopoCorp.

It would be very difficult to extricate oneself from paying for the services of wall street, and even more difficult to shield oneself from the fallout in a meltdown they helped to create.

I don't think we are talking about something like a monopoly.

See the above post about how I "extricated myself from paying for the services of wall street"

As far as the shield is concerned, I bought stock.

I rolled the dice, it's my own darn fault.

Too bad for me, I gambled and lost.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
OperaTenor
Mar 26 2009, 09:41 AM
George K
Mar 26 2009, 08:42 AM
OperaTenor
Mar 26 2009, 08:38 AM
I didn't know Soros received any bailout money.

AFAIK, he didn't. But the point is that it's a large profit, made on OPM. He claims he wants to be regulated.

At what percentage? 90%? 50%? 25? How much is too much enough?
But the point of the 90% tax(which I think is stupid) was to recover bailout money paid out as bonuses, not to tax profit.

No, the purpose of the tax was political posturing.

Take it a step further, though. What was the point of the bailouts? To help these banks and organizations have the assets necessary to meet their debt's, stay in business, and have the werewithal to continue lending. Well, those debts included contractual obligations to these employees, and these employees are the assets necessary for these institutions to stay in business.

What's the sense in bailing them out if the very people we need in there leave, and go to Deutsche?
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
Mar 26 2009, 12:15 PM
I rolled the dice, it's my own darn fault.

Too bad for me, I gambled and lost.
Too bad that doesn't apply to bailout recipients.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
What was the point of the bailouts? To help these banks and organizations have the assets necessary to meet their debt's, stay in business, and have the werewithal to continue lending.


Wrong.

The point of the bailouts was absolutely not that.

The point of the bailouts was to prevent the entire financial system from collapsing in a cascade, as one failure caused another to fail, and so on.

If the damage could have been contained within a single institution, or within a discrete group of institutions, those institutions should have and would have been allowed to go under, a la Lehman.

The problem is that the financial system is an interconnected web, and the failure of any one large participant can cause the failure of others, and so on.

It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
What happens to debtor obligations when a company goes bankrupt? Is it like the guy who borrowed $50K from Vito Spatafore knowing he'd probably get whacked and wouldn't have to pay him back?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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