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A not-so-good day
Topic Started: Feb 26 2009, 02:45 PM (726 Views)
dolmansaxlil
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HOLY CARP!!!
Today I taught one of our congregated groups. One of our students in this group is identified Gifted/Learning Disabled/ADHD/OCD.

And he didn't take his meds this morning.

Don't get me wrong - meds are over prescribed. But wow, does this kid need them.

There was shouting (him at me, not vice versa), tears, a couple tantrums, a narrowly avoided violent incident, arguments, denials, and more tears.

Gods, I'm exhausted.
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Carpe Diem
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Junior Carp
Well done for getting through the day...and dealing with it. It must be tough love sometimes.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Too often medication is prescribed when what's needed is for his parents to slap the living sh!t out of him/her.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
Geez, you do an incredible job. What a huge amount of stress for all involved, that student, the other students, you, his parents....I can see how easily a kid like that would fall through the cracks; be so much easier, wouldn't it?

Give yourself a good pat on the back, and pour yourself a glass of wine. Or a bath. :wave:
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
dolmansaxlil
Feb 26 2009, 02:45 PM
Don't get me wrong - meds are over prescribed. But wow, does this kid need them.

There was shouting (him at me, not vice versa), tears, a couple tantrums, a narrowly avoided violent incident, arguments, denials, and more tears.

Gods, I'm exhausted.
I wasn't aware that you posted over at the WTF.

I've been banned from lurking there.
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Carpe Diem
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Junior Carp
Renauda
Feb 26 2009, 02:51 PM
dolmansaxlil
Feb 26 2009, 02:45 PM
Don't get me wrong - meds are over prescribed. But wow, does this kid need them.

There was shouting (him at me, not vice versa), tears, a couple tantrums, a narrowly avoided violent incident, arguments, denials, and more tears.

Gods, I'm exhausted.
I wasn't aware that you posted over at the WTF.

I've been banned from lurking there.
:lol2:
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Free Rider
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Fulla-Carp
Dol that is exhausting. I used to work (for 3 years) as a "cottage parent" at a residential school for kids with Severe Emotional Disturbance (SED) Lots had ADHD/OCD as well. I learned a lot, both about myself and kids. I got insulted, attacked, spit at, and punched pretty much every day. We studied MANDT method of non-pain compliance for restraints/takedowns. It was very stressful and rewarding...but most of all I remember being drained emotionally, physically, and spiritually at the end of the day. I really think teachers and other professionals in the community should get more training for this type of child, the peole who were good at it were so amazing...they could just say the right thing immediately. After a while I bacame good, but at first I was like, "Uhh. you need to ..uhh, stop that.." " :lol:

Way to do good work, Dol. You are really making a difference, and I admire that. BTW Larry's comment was way off base, kids who are frustrated, angry, feeling down about themselves, and are acting out do NOT need to be smacked upside the head. Pain does not de-escalate anybody. Pain compliance is what police use to subdue dangerous criminals. Children deserve to be treated in a fair manner with natural consequences to their actions, and with teaching to help them make good choices and to reflect back upon poor ones. The days of slamming kids and locking them down in time out are (thnkfully) over.
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dolmansaxlil
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HOLY CARP!!!
Larry - I've dealt with my fair share of kids who could have been in a much better situation if the parents did their job as parents. This kid isn't one of those. His sister is also Gifted/LD and in our program. She is completely different from her brother. While her LD is definitely evident, she copes very well. Mom and Dad are both amazing with the brother - it's quite astounding to watch. They understand that he has this difficulties, and know how to diffuse the situation without giving in, and know when he CAN control himself but is choosing not to.

He's a good kid, but man... his parents are saints.
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Larry
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Quote:
 
BTW Larry's comment was way off base


Oh, spare me the bleeding heart sh!t.

A hundred years ago there weren't any ADD kids. If you yelled at your parents or a teacher, you got the sh!t slapped out of you. You soon learned that when you did that, you'd get slapped silly. The reason we have the problem is because of the kind of touchy feely bull sh!t you suggest.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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dolmansaxlil
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HOLY CARP!!!
Free Rider - I'm trained in something called CPI - Crisis Prevention and Intervention, I think is what it's called. We learn about how to recognize stress signs before the child goes into crisis, all of those nifty holds to control a violent child when they do go into crisis, etc. I'm not sure if it's similar, but I'm so glad I have it. I've only had to use the holds when I worked in a classroom for students with developmental disabilities, but I've had other students where it was a possibility. It's good to have it in my back pocket.
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson

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dolmansaxlil
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HOLY CARP!!!
A hundred years ago (actually, 30ish years ago) this child would have been in an institution - not a public school.
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Free Rider
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Larry
Feb 26 2009, 03:19 PM
Quote:
 
BTW Larry's comment was way off base


Oh, spare me the bleeding heart sh!t.

A hundred years ago there weren't any ADD kids. If you yelled at your parents or a teacher, you got the sh!t slapped out of you. You soon learned that when you did that, you'd get slapped silly. The reason we have the problem is because of the kind of touchy feely bull sh!t you suggest.

Shut up Larry, you have no friggin' clue what you're talking about.

EDIT: Dol, it is good you got some training, PM me if you have questions about the verbal stuff you can use...no..."Shut up" isn't one of the phrases.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Shut up Larry, you have no friggin' clue what you're talking about.


I raised 9 kids to adulthood. How many have you? I was married to a child psychologist who worked with this stuff, and saw it day in and day out for 13 years. While there is always the occasional exception to the rule, the vast number of these kids simply need to be raised right by parents who teach them how to behave.

So yes, I DO have a friggin' clue.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Free Rider
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Larry
Feb 26 2009, 03:25 PM
Quote:
 
Shut up Larry, you have no friggin' clue what you're talking about.

the vast number of these kids simply need to be raised right by parents who teach them how to behave.



I agree with that statement, but slapping the Sh!t out of them is a poor way to get results.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Raise them right to start with and there won't be a need to slap the sh!t out of them. Once the horse is out of the barn, I'll guarantee you that if we took one each and you did your way and I did mine, in two weeks time your kid would still be acting up, and mine would be doing what he was supposed to do. He might hate me, but he'll mind me.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Free Rider
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Fulla-Carp
Larry
Feb 26 2009, 03:30 PM
He might hate me, but he'll mind me.
Like I said, a poor way to get results. I still hate my dad for the ass-kickings I received 30 years ago, and none of my brothers will speak to him. But we did behave....


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kathyk
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Pisa-Carp
dolmansaxlil
Feb 26 2009, 03:21 PM
A hundred years ago (actually, 30ish years ago) this child would have been in an institution - not a public school.
That's the key isn't it. I started working as music therapist fresh out of college in one of those Cuckoo's Nest type state hospitals. It was only a couple years later that the deinstitutionalization wave hit and all of those places were shut down. Now those kids are all mainstreamed in the public schools. It's probably great for those kids, but what a challenge for you teachers, and what a shame for the regular students who don't get the time and attention they might have otherwise gotten. I'm convinced that one of the main reason the arts programs in our school systems have been so eviscerated is because the government mandated special education expenses have eaten up the money for these programs. I'm not advocating shoving them back in institutions, but something's got to give. hmm - I guess it's music and the arts. Sad. I feel for you Dol.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Depends on the situation. With boys it works pretty well. All pack animals have hierarchy, and competition for dominance.

I hear you talking about what hard work a baby is. Just wait until your boy gets a little older and more powerful. You may find yourself tempted soon enough. :D
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Well, there's the problem. You're still carrying resentment from a dad who kicked ass but didn't balance it out with love. I'm not your dad. My way is a little more thought out than just beating the hell out of a kid every time he turns around. I'm not defending child abuse here, I'm telling you that the touchy feely crap doesn't work, and in fact just makes things worse.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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kluurs
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Fulla-Carp
This is probably a separate thread but I think parenting has changed a lot since the era in which Larry and i were brought up. I think our parents were of a generation who grew up and wanted their children to be able to survive in a hostile world.

More recently, the focus of many parents has been in a different and not necessarily, more healthy direction.

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dolmansaxlil
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HOLY CARP!!!
kathy - I think we're starting to see the pendulum swing the other way in some ways. Full inclusion is not the best thing for every kid. There are still parents who fight tooth and nail for it, even if it's not in their kids best interest - because they want their child to be as "normal" as possible. I understand that - but it shouldn't get in the way of what they need. So now we're starting to see a bit of a change. Self-contained classrooms within public schools, and the students go into their age-appropriate classes for the subjects that are appropriate.

I think that, with proper supports in place (and that's way more money than they will spend) all but 1-2% of kids can be taught successfully in regular classrooms - without doing a thing that harms the rest of the kids. As of right now, they're trying to do both - put them in regular classrooms, but not give them the supports that will make it work.

I've also seen inclusion as a really GOOD thing for the rest of the kids. My home school is a full service school - we have a developmentally disabled/medically fragile classroom. The rest of the kids in the school are MUCH more accepting of these students than schools where those rooms aren't in place - because in those schools, the DD/MF students are shipped out to full service schools.
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
kluurs
Feb 26 2009, 03:43 PM
This is probably a separate thread but I think parenting has changed a lot since the era in which Larry and i were brought up. I think our parents were of a generation who grew up and wanted their children to be able to survive in a hostile world.

More recently, the focus of many parents has been in a different and not necessarily, more healthy direction.

True.

And lest it end up looking like I beat my kids, let me say that I've only had to get physical with a couple of them, both boys - both who have since thanked me for it, and told me it was the only thing that sank in.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Has a lot to do with being their parent first, friend second. A whole lot of people never get that. They may say it, but they don't do it.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Larry
Feb 26 2009, 04:00 PM
kluurs
Feb 26 2009, 03:43 PM
This is probably a separate thread but I think parenting has changed a lot since the era in which Larry and i were brought up. I think our parents were of a generation who grew up and wanted their children to be able to survive in a hostile world.

More recently, the focus of many parents has been in a different and not necessarily, more healthy direction.

True.

And lest it end up looking like I beat my kids, let me say that I've only had to get physical with a couple of them, both boys - both who have since thanked me for it, and told me it was the only thing that sank in.

Yeah but what works for some might not work for others.

A friend of mine had parents that were totally hands off; he basically ran his own life 'bout the time he turned 14. It worked great for him because he's responsible and self-reliant; the mild neglect his parents inflicted on him just helped him hone those qualities.

His sister on the other hand is a total ****ing mess.

Some kids respond better to "the touchy-feely B.S." Other ones respond better to "physical reinforcement." I mean it all depends; how can anyone say one method is universally better than the other? A better approach in my opinion would be to try and figure out what's best for each kid.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
dolmansaxlil
Feb 26 2009, 03:21 PM
A hundred years ago (actually, 30ish years ago) this child would have been in an institution - not a public school.
No. 30 years ago or so they would have been labelled bad boys and bad girls in grade 1 and put in the C or D classroom (as opposed to the A or B class of the same grade) with kids with lower I.Q scores. The stigma of being a *bad kid* then followed them all through school until they dropped out- usually in grade 10 or when they turned 16 whichever came first.
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