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R.I.P. Saturn Auto
Topic Started: Feb 18 2009, 04:08 AM (589 Views)
George K
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Finally
(and maybe Pontiac as well)
A Painful Departure for G.M. Brands
Quote:
 
DETROIT — The brand that was once hailed as an important part of the future of General Motors now will be part of its past.

G.M. said Tuesday that it would phase out its Saturn brand by 2012. It does not plan to develop any more new vehicles for Saturn, which began 19 years ago as an effort to attract owners of small Japanese cars.

G.M. also said it was considering its options for the Pontiac division. The Pontiac name, part of the car business since 1932, could remain on some models, but may no longer be a separate division. G.M. said Pontiac would be a “focused brand” with fewer models.

The disclosures by G.M., contained in a viability plan submitted to the government, means that G.M. plans to cut its brands in half, to four: Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC.

It said last fall that it would try to find buyers for Hummer and Saab. On Tuesday, it said it would decide on Hummer’s fate by March 31.

But is four the right number?

After all, most of its big competitors, including Toyota, Honda and Chrysler, build their businesses around three brands or fewer in the United States. Ford is moving to shed its foreign brands and plans to focus primarily on three — Ford, Lincoln and Mercury.

“A volume brand and a premium brand can get the job done. Toyota has proven that,” said Karl Brauer, editor in chief of Edmunds.com, a Web site that offers car-buying advice. “Cadillac, Chevy, done.”

The more brands a carmaker has, the more it must spread money around to develop vehicles and market them.

As a result, “every brand suffers,” said A. Andrew Shapiro, a managing partner with the Casesa Shapiro Group. “No particular brand or brands can achieve the share of voice that they need.”

Its extensive brand lineup has long been G.M.’s primary weapon. Founded in 1908 by William C. Durant, who brought together a collection of car companies, G.M. made the concept of “a car for every purse and purpose” its strategy during the 1920s for retaining buyers from their first car to their last.

Brands were a crucial element in G.M.’s effort to thwart Ford, then the country’s biggest car company, whose founder joked that buyers could have any color they wanted, as long as it was black.

G.M.’s strategy paid off during its best years, when it controlled more than half the American car market. But it held only 22 percent of United States auto sales last year, with more than half of its share coming from a single division, Chevrolet.

G.M. found out last decade just how expensive it could be to unwind a brand. It spent more than $1 billion to buy out dealers at Oldsmobile, which built its last cars in 2004.

Rick Wagoner, G.M.’s chief executive, said the automaker had set aside money to buy out dealers, but declined to specify a figure. “We have reserves in our plan to facilitate that,” he said.

He cited the economic downturn as the reason G.M. was phasing out Saturn. “Frankly, the opportunity for any brand, and for our volume as a whole, just looks radically different,” he said. “It is unfortunate and it seems like a cruel twist of fate at a time when Saturn is loaded up with a fantastic product portfolio.”

In a letter sent Tuesday to Saturn dealers, G.M. said it would entertain a plan from Saturn dealers or other investors for a spinoff of the division to keep it operating. It said it would provide information to potential investors.

But it warned a spinoff would be “a difficult and complex task, and some of the issues that must be resolved include product sourcing, capitalization and financing issues,” G.M. said in the letter signed by Mark LeNeve, a G.M. vice president for North American sales, and Jill Lajdziak, the general manager of Saturn.

When Saturn was started in 1990, as a “different kind of car, a different kind of car company” aimed at owners of small Hondas and Toyotas, its small cars were immediate hits. But G.M. executives decided in the mid-1990s that they needed to support G.M.’s other brands over Saturn, which by then had cost $5 billion.

G.M. did not add any new vehicles to the Saturn lineup for five years, despite pleas from dealers for bigger vehicles. Earlier this decade, G.M. decided to start selling vehicles from its Opel division, with some design changes, as Saturns in the United States.

Saturn sold 188,004 vehicles in 2008, down 21.7 percent from the previous year. Its best-selling vehicle was the Saturn Vue, a small sport utility vehicle.

Strict franchise laws protect dealers across the country from seeing their operations shut down without advance notice.

G.M. dealers said they were led to believe that the company was committed to the division.

“G.M. is picking on Saturn,” said Sherrill Freeborough, who owns Saturn dealerships in Grand Ledge and Okemos, Mich. “I want G.M. to be successful but I don’t think that always happens the other way around.”

In 1992, when G.M. began discussing the end of Oldsmobile, the division sold 412,000 vehicles. Except for Chevrolet, none of G.M.’s current brands sold that many vehicles last year.

Mr. Shapiro, the analyst, said G.M. should have rethought its divisions in the 1980s, when a number of new brands appeared in the United States, including Acura, Lexus and Infiniti, the Japanese luxury brands, and the Korean makers Hyundai and Kia.

“There were always good short-term reasons for not doing something,” Mr. Shapiro said.

Ed Dena, a Pontiac dealer in Dinuba, Calif., said he would eventually have to focus on his other G.M. brands, including Chevrolet, Buick and GMC. “Of course we’re sad because Pontiac is an icon,” he said. “But right now, in this industry, nothing is a shock anymore.”



A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Phlebas
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Bull-Carp
They should expand the Saturn business model - good customer service, attractive to the market for small Japanese cars - at the expense of some of their other lines.

I own a 1995 Saturn - not our only car, mind you. Can't find a good reason to get rid of it. Still runs great.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I have thought for a long time they should ditch Saturn. I have driven a few as rentals and when I was test driving. Every single one I drove I thought was crap, and ugly to boot.

Going the Toyota route seems to me a very good idea - stick to knitting. If you make a good enough car no one cares that there are a lot of them on the road.

Edit: Phlebas and I crossposted. No offense, guy - I'm glad you had good luck with yours, and I do like their body panel ideas.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
I would have though Buick would have been a candidate, but I guess old people need to drive something.
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Phlebas
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Bull-Carp
Mikhailoh
Feb 18 2009, 04:23 AM
I have thought for a long time they should ditch Saturn. I have driven a few as rentals and when I was test driving. Every single one I drove I thought was crap, and ugly to boot.

Going the Toyota route seems to me a very good idea - stick to knitting. If you make a good enough car no one cares that there are a lot of them on the road.

Edit: Phlebas and I crossposted. No offense, guy - I'm glad you had good luck with yours, and I do like their body panel ideas.
Not at all. I should have added "up the quality a lot."
It was a decent cheap car when I got it. It always starts. It's still a decent cheap car.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Buicks are doing better due to vastly improved design. They are also a hot commodity in China. Big status symbol.

Whatever they do they have to make a car that seldom needs repair before 130K. The American rides I have bought in the last 20 years all start falling apart at 60K.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
TomK
Feb 18 2009, 04:33 AM
I would have though Buick would have been a candidate, but I guess old people need to drive something.
It's their highest quality car.

And, as Mik pointed out, a hot seller in one of the world's largest emerging markets.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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George K
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Finally
Jolly
Feb 18 2009, 04:57 AM
TomK
Feb 18 2009, 04:33 AM
I would have though Buick would have been a candidate, but I guess old people need to drive something.
It's their highest quality car.
Higher than Cadillac?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
George K
Feb 18 2009, 04:59 AM
Jolly
Feb 18 2009, 04:57 AM
TomK
Feb 18 2009, 04:33 AM
I would have though Buick would have been a candidate, but I guess old people need to drive something.
It's their highest quality car.
Higher than Cadillac?
I'll have to browse the J.D. Power stuff, but for many years they were better than Cadillac.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Feb 18 2009, 04:57 AM
TomK
Feb 18 2009, 04:33 AM
I would have though Buick would have been a candidate, but I guess old people need to drive something.
It's their highest quality car.

And, as Mik pointed out, a hot seller in one of the world's largest emerging markets.
I never would have guess that.

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
I've never been impressed with Cadillac. The quality just isn't there. Of the one or two models they make that *does* appear to be well made and decent looking, they're so overpriced they aren't worth looking at.

I've owned one Cadillac in my life, and that was all it took to make me a Lincoln driver for the last 25 or 30 years. Every time I buy another car I go to the Cadillac dealer first thing hoping that *this* time will be different. Every time I leave wondering why they even bother to build cars.



Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
I thought the newer Caddy's were at a higher standard than they've been over the past couple of decades?
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Phlebas
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Bull-Carp
Larry
Feb 18 2009, 07:41 AM
I've never been impressed with Cadillac. The quality just isn't there. Of the one or two models they make that *does* appear to be well made and decent looking, they're so overpriced they aren't worth looking at.

I've owned one Cadillac in my life, and that was all it took to make me a Lincoln driver for the last 25 or 30 years. Every time I buy another car I go to the Cadillac dealer first thing hoping that *this* time will be different. Every time I leave wondering why they even bother to build cars.



There's a reason the Lincoln Town Car is the standard for livery cars in NY - outside of yellow cabs.
I wonder what they'll replace them with now that have - or sill soon - stop making the Town Car.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Luke's Dad
Feb 18 2009, 07:46 AM
I thought the newer Caddy's were at a higher standard than they've been over the past couple of decades?
That isn't really saying much....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
There's a reason the Lincoln Town Car is the standard for livery cars in NY - outside of yellow cabs.
I wonder what they'll replace them with now that have - or sill soon - stop making the Town Car.


My last Town Car went 250,000 miles with nothing more than oil changes, brake shoes and tires, got 27 mpg on the highway, nothing fell off, nothing came loose, not a single rattle, it didn't use a drop of oil, and when I gave it to my son was as tight as it was the day I bought it.

Of course, he promptly got caught selling some pills to a narc and the car was seized, and he's still in jail.. but that's another issue.....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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PattyP
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Senior Carp
TomK
Feb 18 2009, 04:33 AM
I would have though Buick would have been a candidate, but I guess old people need to drive something.
Hey there dude. Watch it! :tomato:

I had a Park Avenue when I was in my 30's and loved it.

Great car, built like a tank, never had any trouble with it, went through the snow like a snowplow. handled like it was on a cloud and there was plenty of room for the dogs. :lol:




A tired dog is a good dog.

"Dogs' lives are too short...their only fault, really."
A.S. Turnbull
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Phlebas
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Larry
Feb 18 2009, 08:05 AM
Quote:
 
There's a reason the Lincoln Town Car is the standard for livery cars in NY - outside of yellow cabs.
I wonder what they'll replace them with now that have - or sill soon - stop making the Town Car.


My last Town Car went 250,000 miles with nothing more than oil changes, brake shoes and tires, got 27 mpg on the highway, nothing fell off, nothing came loose, not a single rattle, it didn't use a drop of oil, and when I gave it to my son was as tight as it was the day I bought it.

Of course, he promptly got caught selling some pills to a narc and the car was seized, and he's still in jail.. but that's another issue.....
Yep. Decent mileage for the size, comfortable, good sized engine, can be on the road for 12 hours a day running the AC day in-day out and never over heat.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

Frankly I think Chevy is the division to get rid of - it carries too much power in GM and is likely the reason GM is in the shape it is today. There is one Chevy vehicle responsible for Chevy's sales number - and that is the half ton pickup truck, which was either the number 1 or number 2 best selling vehicle in America (with the Ford F-150).

It also does not make sense to keep 2 divisions making trucks - GMC and Chevy. SO, if you want to go with the name - cancel GMC light trucks and set Chevy up to make 1 ton and under trucks, and leave GMC Truck to make the larger stuff. Stick the Corvette into Pontiac, and keep building Pontiac as the "Excitement" division. Delete Saturn. Cadillac could go - take the CTS and rebrand it as a Buick and make Buick the luxury car division. Keep the suburban amd Tahoe under Chevy, as they are truck chassis. Get rid of the Escalade (including its ridiculous hybrid version).


Quote:
 
Whatever they do they have to make a car that seldom needs repair before 130K.


BS - I have driven several GM vehicles that have gone the distance with little beyond regular maintenance. Frankly I find all this stuff about foreign cars to be untrue. My colleague raves about his Mercedes, then I find it has to be fed high octane fuel, not to mention all the other little quirks. His other car, which he raves about, is a VW Passat - same story on fuel. And he just sunk in excess of $5,000 on repairs, and the vehicle is well under 100,000 miles. Another colleague has a Mazda RX7 - another one that needs to be babied. Another engineer I used to work with had a Mazda - wouldn't start, let alone run, any time it was out in heavy rain. The Korean manufacturers have a reputation to make and I'd look at their cars before Japanese. The Japanese are moving in the direction of GM and Ford in the 70's and they are going to be displaced by the Koreans in the reliability ratings.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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Copper
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Shortstop

This is my fault.

My 8.5 year old Chevy only has 25K miles.

I'll try to drive more.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
It also does not make sense to keep 2 divisions making trucks - GMC and Chevy.


Are they made in separate factories? I always thought they were made in the same place. Bear in mind that some branding is done to allow them to set up two dealers in the same area. You can't have two Chevy dealers sitting across the street from each other, but you *can* have a Chevy dealer on one side of the road and a GMC dealer on the other side of the road.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

No, the trucks come off the same line (used to be Janesville, Wisconsin I think - that's where my old suburban came from), but still, GM has to dilute the development money across 2 divisons (as styling and finish is different) - would make sense to have one division making the trucks.


[Edit: Looks like the half ton pick up trucks come off the Fort Wayne assembly line]
There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
Ian, I think you have the best ideas. Sadly, there is so much nostalgia in the names Buick, Cadillac, Pontiac, Chevrolet and GMC that someone isn't going to be happy.

I'm not even sure you need to lose those names - just limit the badge engineering to two vehicles off of a given platform. Make every dealership sell all the brands. If you have to keep just three, I'd say it should be Chevrolet, Cadillac and Pontiac. What's Buick's demographic now? Avg. age of 67 or something? Buick owners are all dying off. Cadillac is, I believe, at least lowering their avg. buyer's age. I have a real fondness for GMC as we had a family history with them and for at least 20 years I've thought their grills looked better than Chevy. Anyway, I won't miss Saturn but I always liked their business model and I hope they'll still bring some of those Opels over from Europe.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

Kincaid - you should take a look at some Buicks at the dealer - I think you might be surprised at what you see. I agree with whoever said that Buicks are better luxury cars than Cadillac.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I agree. Go drive a Lucerne or a LaCrosse.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Grim Reaper
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Mwaaahahahahaha!
What? You thought that I only kill humans? No, business gets my business as well. Especially business with bad business practices.
I am the best diet in the world. The ultimate fat trimmer.
I prefer my sh!t shaken, not stirred.
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