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| I'm Appalled | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 14 2009, 03:13 AM (2,361 Views) | |
| Mikhailoh | Feb 17 2009, 12:35 PM Post #176 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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When a politician says something that he would clearly like to be true and makes him look somehow noble, I am not inclined to take it at face value. I suspect it has more to do with how Pennsylvania will fare in this bill. Or maybe he wants to be Secretary of Commerce.
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| JBryan | Feb 17 2009, 12:54 PM Post #177 |
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I am the grey one
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He would make a dandy one. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| George K | Feb 17 2009, 07:32 PM Post #178 |
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Finally
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"Genuine bipartisanship assumes an honest process of give-and-take, and that the quality of the compromise is measured by how well it serves some agreed-upon goal, whether better schools or lower deficits. This in turn assumes that the majority will be constrained -- by an exacting press corps and ultimately an informed electorate -- to negotiate in good faith. "If these conditions do not hold -- if nobody outside Washington is really paying attention to the substance of the bill, if the true costs . . . are buried in phony accounting and understated by a trillion dollars or so -- the majority party can begin every negotiation by asking for 100% of what it wants, go on to concede 10%, and then accuse any member of the minority party who fails to support this 'compromise' of being 'obstructionist.' "For the minority party in such circumstances, 'bipartisanship' comes to mean getting chronically steamrolled, although individual senators may enjoy certain political rewards by consistently going along with the majority and hence gaining a reputation for being 'moderate' or 'centrist.'" |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| JBryan | Feb 17 2009, 07:35 PM Post #179 |
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I am the grey one
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Arguing with Kathyk is like arguing with your shorts only less satisfying. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| kathyk | Feb 17 2009, 07:36 PM Post #180 |
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Pisa-Carp
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(In response to George - JB's post got in the way ) That's all fine and well if they real reason they didn't vote for it was because they didn't believe it was a good bill. According to Specter, however, with a good number those voting against it, that wasn't the case; rather, their main consideration was their upcoming primaries.Who are you quoting there, anyway? JB, all I'm doing is taking the good Senator Specter's point and running with it. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| Mikhailoh | Feb 17 2009, 07:37 PM Post #181 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Interesting analogy. I hate it when my shorts keep riding up my ass.
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| George K | Feb 17 2009, 07:38 PM Post #182 |
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Finally
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I know, I just thought if I quoted Obama, it may make it more meaningful. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| kathyk | Feb 17 2009, 07:40 PM Post #183 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Well, see my response. I found your quoted language reasonable. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| Mikhailoh | Feb 17 2009, 07:42 PM Post #184 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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With the way the bill was cobbled together and rammed down the GOP's throat, it boggles the mind why ANY republican would vote for it. It was going to pass anyway, so let the Dems take sole responsibility. If the bill succeeds, which is going to be a mixed bag at best and a smashing success is highly unlikely, the Democrats will be unstoppable. But - if it fails, no GOP congressman wants to be the one holding the bag against the party line. That's just common sense. It was not a question of whether or not it would pass. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| JBryan | Feb 17 2009, 07:51 PM Post #185 |
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I am the grey one
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The funny thing is that the economy will rebound as it always does but Obama will be given credit because of this bloated whale carcass on the beach of our economy. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Feb 17 2009, 07:55 PM Post #186 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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The key here is WHEN will it recover. My personal feeling - and it is just that, a feeling - is that it will not really start to rebound by November 2010. After he bet his presidency on this bill, and I think it is certain he did, it scares me to think what he might do to try to salvage it at that time. This temptation to tinker in Pakistan is so far 'above his pay grade' is what scares me. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| QuirtEvans | Feb 18 2009, 05:40 AM Post #187 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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If you get your satisfaction from arguing with your shorts, I don't want to know about it. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Feb 18 2009, 05:43 AM Post #188 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Exactly. Which is why Mik's "doom and gloom" predictions are so off base. The economy will be bad, bad, bad ... probably until sometime in the middle of 2010. Then it will begin to rebound ... just in time for the midterm elections. The true cost of the stimulus bill will be paid out over decades. It's like a signing bonus for a pro football player ... you pay the money now, but the cap cost continues well into the future, sometimes past the point when he's still playing. And, by then, no one will remember that it was the fault of the stimulus bill. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| JBryan | Feb 18 2009, 05:45 AM Post #189 |
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I am the grey one
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I don't. That is the point. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Feb 18 2009, 06:55 AM Post #190 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Quirt, I think you are both right and wrong. There may be some indications of a rebounding economy by 2010. Some think so, some don't. But whatever recovery there is is unlikely to have trickled down into the lives of the middle class. If they do not SEE the improvement in their lives they are not going to be happy after being sold this bill of goods. Obama set his own bar awfully high. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Luke's Dad | Feb 18 2009, 07:59 AM Post #191 |
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Emperor Pengin
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Arlen Spector has been a RINO for the past ten years or more. On basically every single issue he comes down on the side of the Dems. It's been the only way he could retain his seat in such a primarily blue state. The republicans have been stuck. They'd like him out, but they can't. If they earnestly and seriously ran a candidate against him, they'd beat him in the primary, but lose to the democrat nominee in the election. So, they put up with him, just to add another R to the caucus. Let me ask you a question. Do you honestly believe this stimulus package is going to accomplish anything? Why? |
| The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it. | |
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| kathyk | Feb 18 2009, 08:15 AM Post #192 |
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Pisa-Carp
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If you're asking me, I have absolutely no idea. According to Specter, a substantial number of his colleagues believe it will. I seriously doubt he's lying about that. The whole financial system mystifies me, but appears to be akin to a house of cards. Wall Street is a prime example of the fickleness of the system. Any time anybody in Washington says boo, the markets are up or down. If nothing else, if it can instill some confidence, it will accomplish something. Kind sad if what you're saying about his colleagues wishing he was gone is true. IMO, he represents the kind of Republican that represented the values my father and FIL that attracted them to the party - not unlike Snowe and Collins. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| Luke's Dad | Feb 18 2009, 08:49 AM Post #193 |
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Emperor Pengin
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And there's the whole problem. You are a smart and educated woman. The economy should not be filled with so much smoke and mirrors that you are mystified by it. Over the past twenty years, the economy is no longer based on value, but instead on money. Stocks and the market are supposed to reflect productivity, not the other way around. Making investments on the basis of potential future earning is all well and good, but not when the vast majority of our money is based on potential and not actual physical results. The entire system needs overhauled. Or even replaced. We need to get back to being a productive society. Create new industries, invest in new technologies, develop new products and goods. When that happens, jobs will be created, wages will increase, unemployment will diminish, moneys will be spent and invested wisely, and tax revenues will increase (repaying some, if not all, of the money spent in the stimulus package), and things will improve. Instead, we are tossing more money into the same broken machinery, tossing good money out with the bad. The few jobs being created by the construction and works projects included in this package are all temporary. As soon as the buildings and projects are finished, the jobs end. In the meantime, nothing has occured to cause new jobs later on. All that will happen is a slight easing of the troubles for a temporary period. With us further in debt and no relief in sight a few years down the road. The idea that any action taken by the government will have any immediate effect on the markets is very troublesome. Government actions should have very little to do with the markets. The closer the two become entwined, the more trouble it causes. The more seperate they are, the stronger the nation becomes. If we as a people are burdened with poor government, a strong economy can still carry us through hard times. If we are going through a poor economic period, a strong but seperate government can help us through those hard times. If you tie the two together, then one or the other can bring the whole house of cards down. President Obama had an opportunity, here. An opportunity to make some changes that would have brought us through this mess and made us stronger than we've been as a country in decades, perhaps ever. If this money had been invested in new technologies, in promoting businesses to expand and improve, in promoting new industries to develop, then he could have earned my support and could have been one of those great Presidents that everybody was hoping he could have been. If he could have put together a bill that everyone, from the common guy through to politicians on bothsides, could come together and say "Yeah, that will work", then alot of other problems in this country could have been healed. And it wouldn't have been difficult, especially with the popularity he has enjoyed. He, IMO, failed in this task, and this bill is just more of the same garbage that both sides have been tossing back and forth.
The same values? What I'm trying to point ut is that the guy has no values. He'll say or do whatever keeps him in office. |
| The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it. | |
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| kathyk | Feb 18 2009, 09:00 AM Post #194 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Sigh - I don't believe anyone really understands the markets anymore. The mess we are in was created in large part while your party was at the helm, so I for one would put no confidence whatsoever in solutions they would have to offer. Deregulation has been their mantra and look at the results. Yes, I know that Democrats have been involved in some of that, but let's not pretend that a Republican administration would have now have some magic panacea. Everyone seemed to be in agreement that something in a way of a stimulus needed to be enacted, but there's been a huge amount of nitpicking over what should be included. So, it's passed and that's a start. Hehe, too bad we don't have the trillion dollars that we squandered over past five years in Iraq to pay for it. In any event, I'm sure a whole lot more work remains to be done and I am very happy to have a president who is super smart and has assembled a team of very capable advisers. If they're not able to pull us out of this - well, I think the ship was destined to sink anyway. As to Specter's values, at least he doesn't have a major scandal pulling him down and I'm afraid most politicians will do what it takes to get elected - part of the playing field these days. He seems like a decent enough chap to me. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| Luke's Dad | Feb 18 2009, 09:17 AM Post #195 |
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Emperor Pengin
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Sigh-The mess we are in is three decades in the making going through five presidencies. However it became what it is today because of the steps taken by the Presidencies in the 90's with the muscle of the AG backing it up to push on giving out unwarranted loans to those that couldn't afford it. The mess was then compounded by the financial institutions passing around these unsecured "securities" (somebody explain the oxymoron in that, to me) back and forth like they were as good as gold. The presidency of Bush was and is as much at fault for seeing the problems this would arise to, and not doing enough to stop it. The money spent in Iraq has no bearing on this in any manner, as it's not a problem with money. We tossed a trillion in, it didn't work. We're tossing anpother trillion in, all indications are that it won't work. Another trillion would have made a difference? No, the machinery is busted. The debate on the War in Iraq is another debate entirely and has no bearing on this issue, and is pointless any way as all 3 trillion (the first stimulus, this stimulus, and the war) is debt. Nowhere have I stated anything regarding a Republican administration doing better. In fact, what I believe would work for a stimulus package would best be handled by democrats, as I believe the best use for this money would have been developing green technologies! Energy, water conservation, vehicles, the works. |
| The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it. | |
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) That's all fine and well if they real reason they didn't vote for it was because they didn't believe it was a good bill. According to Specter, however, with a good number those voting against it, that wasn't the case; rather, their main consideration was their upcoming primaries.


4:35 PM Jul 10