Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 6
  • 8
I'm Appalled
Topic Started: Feb 14 2009, 03:13 AM (2,364 Views)
brenda
Member Avatar
..............
:popcorn:



“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 12:50 PM
JBryan
Feb 15 2009, 12:38 PM
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 12:28 PM
Mikhailoh
Feb 15 2009, 11:11 AM
He met with them offered no movement and basically told them they should capitulate because he won. Is that your idea of collegiality?
Why don't you remind me about how Bush treated the Dems when they were the minority?
At this point in his presidency he was treating them quite nicely to the chagrin of many of his supporters who knew he would never be extended the same courtesty and was not. Just in case you forgot.
It depends on what you mean by "at this point in his Presidency".

You might mean the number of days in. I'd suggest the more relevant comparison is the first time the rubber hit the road on something Bush wanted as a matter of conservative philosophy.
You mean like when he let Ted Kennedy write his education bill? Yeah, you're right. That definitely is not a matter of conservative philosophy.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 09:28 AM
Let's assume for a moment that the Dems sincerely believed it was a matter of national urgency. I know you don't, but they did. Shouldn't they try to get it done as quickly as possible?
WHAT'S THE RUSH?
'URGENT' $TIMULUS ON HOLD FOR BAM'S WEEKEND OFF

Quote:
 
After pushing Congress for weeks to hurry up and pass the massive $787 billion stimulus bill, President Obama promptly took off for a three-day holiday getaway.

Obama arrived at his home in Chicago on Friday, and treated wife Michelle to a Valentine's Day dinner downtown last night. The couple was spotted leaving upscale Table Fifty-Two, which specializes in Southern cuisine, with the first lady toting what appeared to be a doggie bag.

The president plans to spend the Presidents' Day weekend in the Windy City, and is not expected to sign the bill until Tuesday, when he travels to Denver to discuss his economic plan.

Both the House and Senate passed the bill Friday night.

The push to get the bill through before the holiday weekend was so frantic, members of Congress didn't have a chance to read all 1,071 pages of the document before they could vote.

"In a perfect world it would have been nice to have had more time to process it," said Ilan Kayatsky, a spokesman for Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY).

Meanwhile, Gov. Paterson called yesterday for fiscal restraint with the massive influx of federal aid. His budget office estimated that New York will receive $24.6 billion over the next two years, $4 billion more than first believed.


A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 12:50 PM
JBryan
Feb 15 2009, 12:38 PM
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 12:28 PM
Mikhailoh
Feb 15 2009, 11:11 AM
He met with them offered no movement and basically told them they should capitulate because he won. Is that your idea of collegiality?
Why don't you remind me about how Bush treated the Dems when they were the minority?
At this point in his presidency he was treating them quite nicely to the chagrin of many of his supporters who knew he would never be extended the same courtesty and was not. Just in case you forgot.
It depends on what you mean by "at this point in his Presidency".

You might mean the number of days in. I'd suggest the more relevant comparison is the first time the rubber hit the road on something Bush wanted as a matter of conservative philosophy.
Doesn't apply. Bush NEVER sold anything as necessary to prevent the imminent collapse of our economy.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
George K
Feb 15 2009, 01:43 PM
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 09:28 AM
Let's assume for a moment that the Dems sincerely believed it was a matter of national urgency. I know you don't, but they did. Shouldn't they try to get it done as quickly as possible?
WHAT'S THE RUSH?
'URGENT' $TIMULUS ON HOLD FOR BAM'S WEEKEND OFF

Quote:
 
After pushing Congress for weeks to hurry up and pass the massive $787 billion stimulus bill, President Obama promptly took off for a three-day holiday getaway.

Obama arrived at his home in Chicago on Friday, and treated wife Michelle to a Valentine's Day dinner downtown last night. The couple was spotted leaving upscale Table Fifty-Two, which specializes in Southern cuisine, with the first lady toting what appeared to be a doggie bag.

The president plans to spend the Presidents' Day weekend in the Windy City, and is not expected to sign the bill until Tuesday, when he travels to Denver to discuss his economic plan.

Both the House and Senate passed the bill Friday night.

The push to get the bill through before the holiday weekend was so frantic, members of Congress didn't have a chance to read all 1,071 pages of the document before they could vote.

"In a perfect world it would have been nice to have had more time to process it," said Ilan Kayatsky, a spokesman for Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY).

Meanwhile, Gov. Paterson called yesterday for fiscal restraint with the massive influx of federal aid. His budget office estimated that New York will receive $24.6 billion over the next two years, $4 billion more than first believed.


So what do you say now, Quirt? Speak up, boy, and take that foot out of your mouth. :lol2:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
brenda
Member Avatar
..............
Well, until we know what was in that doggy bag, how are we supposed to know whether it was more important than signing the bill before the weekend?? It *might* have been more important than signing the bill. I hear they have some mighty good vittles there. (Yes, I can say vittles, because the place is supposed to serve southern food.)

vittles=victuals for you high falutin' folks
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
Feb 15 2009, 02:16 PM
George K
Feb 15 2009, 01:43 PM
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 09:28 AM
Let's assume for a moment that the Dems sincerely believed it was a matter of national urgency. I know you don't, but they did. Shouldn't they try to get it done as quickly as possible?
WHAT'S THE RUSH?
'URGENT' $TIMULUS ON HOLD FOR BAM'S WEEKEND OFF

Quote:
 
After pushing Congress for weeks to hurry up and pass the massive $787 billion stimulus bill, President Obama promptly took off for a three-day holiday getaway.

Obama arrived at his home in Chicago on Friday, and treated wife Michelle to a Valentine's Day dinner downtown last night. The couple was spotted leaving upscale Table Fifty-Two, which specializes in Southern cuisine, with the first lady toting what appeared to be a doggie bag.

The president plans to spend the Presidents' Day weekend in the Windy City, and is not expected to sign the bill until Tuesday, when he travels to Denver to discuss his economic plan.

Both the House and Senate passed the bill Friday night.

The push to get the bill through before the holiday weekend was so frantic, members of Congress didn't have a chance to read all 1,071 pages of the document before they could vote.

"In a perfect world it would have been nice to have had more time to process it," said Ilan Kayatsky, a spokesman for Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY).

Meanwhile, Gov. Paterson called yesterday for fiscal restraint with the massive influx of federal aid. His budget office estimated that New York will receive $24.6 billion over the next two years, $4 billion more than first believed.


So what do you say now, Quirt? Speak up, boy, and take that foot out of your mouth. :lol2:
Has it been delivered for his signature yet? It's not unusual for Congress not to deliver a bill to the President until several days after it's passed.

If he can sign it Tuesday in Denver, he could surely sign it Saturday or Sunday in Chicago ... if it's been delivered for his signature.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
If they weren't to deliver it to him until later it wasn't important enough to force the vote Friday night.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
I still want to know how 72 hours makes a difference. :shrug:
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1hp
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp

Quote:
 
Bush NEVER sold anything as necessary to prevent the imminent collapse of our economy.


Umm, I think this is how he sold the first bailout stimulus package. Remember - that was the one that McCain thought it was serious enough that he left the campaign trail and announced he wouldn't make the last debate. Obama finally followed him to Washington, though he seemed to be more interested in the final debate that looked like it wasn't going to happen.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I should have made clear that the period we are talking about is fairly early in his presidency. My bad. By the end of his presidency there was no collegiality at all. There won't be with Obama either, and it has come earlier.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
Feb 15 2009, 02:39 PM
If they weren't to deliver it to him until later it wasn't important enough to force the vote Friday night.
Do you know Congressional processes well enough to know how long it takes to prepare a bill for the President's signature? The absolute minimum, no matter what, for a bill as long as this one?

I didn't think so.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
Feb 15 2009, 02:44 PM
I should have made clear that the period we are talking about is fairly early in his presidency. My bad. By the end of his presidency there was no collegiality at all. There won't be with Obama either, and it has come earlier.
Like the collegiality in how the Patriot Act was written, hmm?
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 02:52 PM
Do you know Congressional processes well enough to know how long it takes to prepare a bill for the President's signature? The absolute minimum, no matter what, for a bill as long as this one?

I didn't think so.
Do you?

Does it take hours?
Days?
Weeks?

And if either of the latter two, what difference does 72 hours make?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jeff
Senior Carp
I am in favor of spending to help future growth. But this bill is a mix of short term tax gimmicks and Dem district pork. The cost of democracy in action.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Free Rider
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
Jeff
Feb 15 2009, 03:07 PM
I am in favor of spending to help future growth. But this bill is a mix of short term tax gimmicks and Dem district pork. The cost of democracy in action.
That's how I feel, too.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 02:52 PM
Mikhailoh
Feb 15 2009, 02:39 PM
If they weren't to deliver it to him until later it wasn't important enough to force the vote Friday night.
Do you know Congressional processes well enough to know how long it takes to prepare a bill for the President's signature? The absolute minimum, no matter what, for a bill as long as this one?

I didn't think so.
Aw, c'mon Quirt. You're among friends.

Just say it. Say 'Aw shucks. I, Quirt Evans, was so wrong about this. I really screwed the pooch with THIS analysis!'

You'll feel better. Really.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
George K
Feb 15 2009, 03:04 PM
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 02:52 PM
Do you know Congressional processes well enough to know how long it takes to prepare a bill for the President's signature? The absolute minimum, no matter what, for a bill as long as this one?

I didn't think so.
Do you?

Does it take hours?
Days?
Weeks?

And if either of the latter two, what difference does 72 hours make?
I don't know the details, but I know that it varies with the length of the bill.

And this was a looong bill.

If I recall correctly, it took a few days, after Congress re-upped the Patriot Act, before it made it to Bush's desk for signature.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
So, what difference does 72 hours make? Why the urgency?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
How many pages long is the Declaration of Independence?

How many pages long is the Constitution?

How many pages long is the Emancipation Declaration?

It seems that the quality of leadership is directly proportional to the amount of paperwork it takes - the lower the quality of leadership, the more paper it takes.....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Larry
Feb 15 2009, 04:00 PM
How many pages long is the Declaration of Independence?

How many pages long is the Constitution?

How many pages long is the Emancipation Declaration?

It seems that the quality of leadership is directly proportional to the amount of paperwork it takes - the lower the quality of leadership, the more paper it takes.....
How many pages was your beloved Patriot Act?
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 04:16 PM
How many pages was your beloved Patriot Act?
Bout 12% of the "Stimulus: 132 pages

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ056.107.pdf

A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 03:27 PM
George K
Feb 15 2009, 03:04 PM
QuirtEvans
Feb 15 2009, 02:52 PM
Do you know Congressional processes well enough to know how long it takes to prepare a bill for the President's signature? The absolute minimum, no matter what, for a bill as long as this one?

I didn't think so.
Do you?

Does it take hours?
Days?
Weeks?

And if either of the latter two, what difference does 72 hours make?
I don't know the details, but I know that it varies with the length of the bill.

And this was a looong bill.

If I recall correctly, it took a few days, after Congress re-upped the Patriot Act, before it made it to Bush's desk for signature.
It was sure short enough to only require several hours for it to be read.

Can't have it both ways.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
Found it: http://readthestimulus.org/

Stimulus is 1588 Pages.

I expect a book report by the end of the week, OK?

So, why the hurry? Where's the urgency?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
Byron York Agrees: It's all about Showmanship, Not Sunlight
Quote:
 

After rushing Congress to act, why did he wait for days to sign the "emergency" stimulus bill?

Back during the presidential campaign, Barack Obama promised something he called “Sunlight Before Signing.” Obama complained that “too often bills are rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them.” So he pledged that, as president, he would “not sign any nonemergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House Web site for five days.”

“Sunlight Before Signing” faded into darkness with the first bill that came across Obama’s desk. The new president signed the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act two days after it was passed by Congress — and without posting it on the White House Web site.

Then he signed the second bill of his administration, an update of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program, within hours after Congress passed it.

Both signatures clearly violated Obama’s campaign promise. Questioned by reporters, White House officials said they were “working out a series of procedures” to handle newly passed legislation. “We’re working through the technicalities of how that happens, and we’ll get a process together,” spokesman Robert Gibbs told the press last week.

As Gibbs spoke, the massive economic stimulus bill was racing through Congress, and the spokesman stressed that Obama’s campaign pledge specifically exempted “emergency” legislation. “If we get this [stimulus] bill, this would certainly meet the president’s test of emergency legislation,” Gibbs explained. “And if we’re lucky enough to have it pass, we’ll sign it rather quickly.”

Then, late Friday, after House and Senate Democratic leaders moved heaven and earth to pass it, the bill was ready for the president’s signature. And did President Obama sign it rather quickly? Not at all.

He also chose not to sign it on Saturday. And not to sign it on Sunday. And he chose not to sign it on Monday. Only on Tuesday, with a big campaign-style event in Denver, would the president finally be ready to put his signature on the bill.

He signs nonemergency legislation in the blink of an eye. And he lets emergency legislation sit for days before lifting his pen.

Obama’s delay in signing the stimulus is particularly ironic in light of the fact that Republicans had begged that the public be given more time to learn what was in the $787 billion bill — before it was passed.

No, no, the White House and Democrats said. This is emergency legislation, and it must be passed as soon as humanly possible. Democratic lawmakers worked round the clock to produce a bill — the final copy had handwritten revisions on it — that could be voted on Friday evening.

And then, when Senate Democrats knew they didn’t have the 60 votes necessary to move the legislation forward — the ailing Massachusetts Sen. Ted Kennedy had gone to Florida, and Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown was at home attending a wake for his mother, who had died a few days earlier — Majority Leader Harry Reid took the extraordinary step of extending the vote for hours. The voting period, which normally lasts about 15 minutes, began at 5:30 p.m. Friday and ended only when Brown, his mother’s wake over, flew to Washington to cast his vote at almost 11. Then Brown immediately flew back to Ohio for his mother’s Saturday funeral.

It was a nearly unprecedented stretch of the rules. Republicans, knowing they didn’t have the votes to stop the bill and planning to spend the Presidents Day weekend in their home states, had agreed to Reid’s plan ahead of time. But why was there such a rush, if Obama had no plans to sign it for days?

Go back to “Sunlight Before Signing.” In the case of the stimulus, there was never any doubt Obama would sign the legislation. The period in which the public needed sunlight was before the bill was passed, not before it was signed. And that was precisely the kind of sunlight the White House and Democrats wanted to stop. Once they accomplished that with Friday’s voting gambit, Obama could take a few days off in Chicago while the “emergency” legislation sat on his desk. Then, it was on to Denver for the photo-op.

This delay had nothing to do with sunlight — and everything to do with showmanship.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 6
  • 8