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| Even More Change That George Can Believe In | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 25 2009, 06:20 PM (562 Views) | |
| QuirtEvans | Jan 25 2009, 06:20 PM Post #1 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/us/politics/26calif.html?_r=1 |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| jon-nyc | Jan 25 2009, 06:32 PM Post #2 |
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Cheers
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This puts the Gubernator in charge of emissions standards. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 26 2009, 08:45 AM Post #3 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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California doesn't have a legislature? More seriously, it only puts California in charge of California. Auto companies are, of course, free not to sell cars in California, if they think it's unprofitable to do so. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Improviso | Jan 26 2009, 09:12 AM Post #4 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Now there's a thought... You can't buy an automobile in the state and they won't let you bring in one bought from out of state. That would be fun to watch. |
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Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism. We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. | |
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| OperaTenor | Jan 26 2009, 09:17 AM Post #5 |
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Pisa-Carp
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One step closer to secession..... |
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| Improviso | Jan 26 2009, 09:22 AM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Buh bye...
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Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism. We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jan 26 2009, 09:25 AM Post #7 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Don't you mean being re-annexed by Mexico? And China, Korea, Japan..... |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| jon-nyc | Jan 26 2009, 09:46 AM Post #8 |
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Cheers
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Several states follow CA standards automatically, including MA and NY. Car companies doing business in the US will follow them. Re the Gubernator vs. the legislature, my understanding is that the California Air Resources Board is effectively controlled by the governor. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Frank_W | Jan 26 2009, 09:48 AM Post #9 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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We currently have no annual inspections and no emissions testing in Tennessee. I dearly hope it remains that way. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 26 2009, 09:55 AM Post #10 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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That's really up to MA and NY and others, isn't it? If they don't want to follow California's lead, they don't have to. And if they choose to do so, you can't put the blame for that on Ahhnold. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| jon-nyc | Jan 26 2009, 10:19 AM Post #11 |
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Cheers
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They do as a matter of current law. THey've linked themselves to the CARB. Google 'CARB States' or US Emission standards |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Frank_W | Jan 26 2009, 10:24 AM Post #12 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Vehicular emissions, nocturnal emissions, post-chili dinner emissions... Where will it all end? Where is the outrage? ![]()
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 26 2009, 10:49 AM Post #13 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Current law can be changed. It's just a default position. They de facto allow California to take a leadership role, but it doesn't HAVE to be that way. And why is it done at a state level? Because you need 60 votes in the Senate to pass legislation on a national level, so it's easier to do it in a few key states and then let the automakers decide whether they want to sell in those places, or not. Hey, it's the beauty of the federalist system! States decide for themselves ... some states don't have tougher rules ... and no one forces a manufacturer to sell in all fifty states. It's astounding to me that those who scream loudest about states' rights, and the limited powers of the federal government under the Constitution, suddenly change their tune when individual states are passing laws they don't like. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Axtremus | Jan 26 2009, 11:01 AM Post #14 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Where are the states rights advocates?
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| Frank_W | Jan 26 2009, 11:09 AM Post #15 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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I made a kick-ass batch of chili, this weekend. It'll fry yer asshairs off. My address is easy to find -- Just look for the big mushroom cloud...
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| brenda | Jan 26 2009, 11:11 AM Post #16 |
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..............
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Drink milk with that chili, Frank. Anything with alcohol could create a flammable situation.
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“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.” ~A.A. Milne | |
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| Frank_W | Jan 26 2009, 11:33 AM Post #17 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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I've got a personal jet-pack. I'm walking around with a permanent blue flame... ![]() Frank's Afterburner Chili + JP5 Coffee = Pissed-off Airline Pilots when I pass them at 34,000 feet and flip the bird at them.
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| jon-nyc | Jan 26 2009, 11:55 AM Post #18 |
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Cheers
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Ok, but then I guess Obama could overrule himself tomorrow. And Obama and Congress could decide to throw away all emissions standards and bring back leaded gasoline. What was the point of the thread if not to discuss the new (current) state of things? |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 26 2009, 12:01 PM Post #19 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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I was disagreeing with your notion that "[t]his puts the Gubernator in charge of emissions standards." It doesn't, in my view. If he decides in a way NY or MA or anywhere else doesn't like, they can go in a different direction. If Ahhnold is somehow in charge of emissions standards, it's because the auto companies still want to sell automobiles in California, not because he has some power to make binding decisions for all the states. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jan 26 2009, 12:13 PM Post #20 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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And in fact some, maybe all I don't know, cars for sale in California have had different features than those sold nationally for quite some time. So it is not a case of everyone gets California standards by default. Drives auto parts counter guys nuts. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Frank_W | Jan 26 2009, 12:45 PM Post #21 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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There's a system on the Yamaha Road Star called the AIS. Basically, it's a pump that injects puffs of air into the cylinders on the exhaust side to aid with combustion of any unburned fuel. Sounds like a good thing, right? It's not. It causes backfiring like crazy, on deceleration. To remove it from the ordinary models of the Road Star isn't such a big deal. Remove the two pumps and a couple of hoses, pull the elbow-joints out of the cylinders, plug the cylinders, and cap off the port on the top of the manifold. All in all, it's maybe a two-beer job. (Or roughly, one hour.) EXCEPT the models that are destined for California! Holy crap!! There is a Hydra of hoses and crap that has to be removed. It's insane just how much has to be taken off! My AIS removal, even with the Rectifier and my homemade slide-hammer lying there: ![]() Compare to the California removal:
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Kincaid | Jan 26 2009, 01:32 PM Post #22 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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What is going to happen is that the 13 states that follow California will do so. The auto companies are almost certainly going to just make everything California compliant. It's just easier to make everything the same and they can just pass costs onto the consumer. Is this good or bad? I've been against it (Oregon is one of those 13 states) just based on what I have assumed would be added cost, complexity and poorer performance. At least, these were definite concerns back in the late 60's thru the 80's, where California regulated cars all had those undesirable qualities. I haven't checked into it but the cost factor may actually be negligible and probably the latter two issues are no longer an issue with current technology and quality. Still, I've never liked feeling dragged along by a relatively few states. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| jon-nyc | Jan 26 2009, 01:45 PM Post #23 |
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Cheers
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The point I think you missed, Quirt, is that California had that power, de facto, for years. Not only because they are so large, but because many other states link to them by law. Bush took it away temporarily. Its back now. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 26 2009, 01:52 PM Post #24 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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I understand that, Jon. I didn't miss it. If I give you the power to invest for me, and you make decisions I don't like, I can take the power back. Who has the real power? You, or me? Me. Because, ultimately, I'm in control, and I can take away your authority. Your authority only lasts for as long as I am pleased with your performance. The analogy works pretty well here, too. If California goes too far, too fast, the other states don't have to follow them. They can rescind the authority. The point is, as California goes, so go the auto companies ... regardless of whether any other states follow along. Because California is too big a market for the auto companies to ignore ... with or without any other states following. The real point of the thread, though, was yet another tweak at George for saying the new guy is the same as the old guy, over and over again. If George hadn't made such a big deal of that, several times, I wouldn't necessarily feel the need to point out every instance in which Obama rescinds a Bush policy. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| jon-nyc | Jan 26 2009, 01:55 PM Post #25 |
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Cheers
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Of course. Again, for that matter, Obama can rescind his executive order from the other day. I assumed this thread was about the (new) current reality, and that the implicit conditional of "unless of course things change again" would be understood by all. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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Buh bye...




8:44 AM Jul 13