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Say Goodbye to the CIA Black Sites
Topic Started: Jan 23 2009, 11:44 PM (476 Views)
QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/22/obama-close-terrorist-black-sites/
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Well good. I just hope the American people have the stomach for paying the price for true freedom and justice that is going to be required with these sort of moves.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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CTPianotech
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Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
Mr. Obama will shutter "all permanant detention facilities overseas," the draft said


It'd be interesting to know what will end up qualifying as a 'temporary' detention facility. :)
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
the devil is in the details, isn't it?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
Jan 24 2009, 04:49 AM
the devil is in the details, isn't it?
No, the devil is in Crawford, or somewhere else in Texas.

Get with the program, please.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Stay tuned, Quirt. All this about face will have ramifications that could come into play later.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jan 23 2009, 11:56 PM
Well good. I just hope the American people have the stomach for paying the price for true freedom and justice that is going to be required with these sort of moves.
If we don't have the stomach for it, we don't deserve it.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
These sites were in all probablity closed long ago and their residents transfered to Gitmo. Once they were exposed they became non-viable. A purely meaningless gesture on the part of Obama other than to assure our enemy that they will never have to see the inside of one of these sites. Pure grandstanding at the expense of our security.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Copper
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Shortstop

These black sites have been valuable national assets.

The only reason to give away a valuable national asset is because you got something better.

It will be fun in about 20 years to find out what it is.

It has obviously been set up by Mr. Bush and coordinated with the new guys.

Well done!

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
QuirtEvans
Jan 24 2009, 04:51 AM
Mikhailoh
Jan 24 2009, 04:49 AM
the devil is in the details, isn't it?
No, the devil is in Crawford, or somewhere else in Texas.

Get with the program, please.
No. The Devil went down to Georgia.

Jeez... Don't you guys know anything? :tongue: :lol2: :lol2:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Awright, so he took a side trip to Georgia on his way to Texas. Geez, I wonder how much the Secret Service had to pay for THAT?
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
:lol2: FWIW, I don't think Bush is/was the Devil, but it is funny.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Axtremus
Jan 24 2009, 06:58 AM
ivorythumper
Jan 23 2009, 11:56 PM
Well good. I just hope the American people have the stomach for paying the price for true freedom and justice that is going to be required with these sort of moves.
If we don't have the stomach for it, we don't deserve it.
All that has been shown so far is that we don't have the stomach to do what is necessary to keep our sworn enemies from attacking us.

If we can't even do what is basic to the survival of a nation, why should we be able to achieve more lofty and abstract goals such as "true freedom" and "justice"?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuirtEvans
Jan 24 2009, 04:51 AM
Mikhailoh
Jan 24 2009, 04:49 AM
the devil is in the details, isn't it?
No, the devil is in Crawford, or somewhere else in Texas.

Get with the program, please.
I thought in your mythology Cheney was POFD. Now your telling us that it was Bush who was the mastermind all along?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2009, 11:44 AM
All that has been shown so far is that we don't have the stomach to do what is necessary to keep our sworn enemies from attacking us.

If we can't even do what is basic to the survival of a nation, why should we be able to achieve more lofty and abstract goals such as "true freedom" and "justice"?
Indeed there is great utility in maintaining offshore sites for the purpose of extraordinary interrogation and detention of suspected terrorists. Great utility.

Glad to you see you also coming around to the reality of the end justifies the means (providing the end is justifiable).

Looks good on you.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Renauda
Jan 24 2009, 12:07 PM
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2009, 11:44 AM
All that has been shown so far is that we don't have the stomach to do what is necessary to keep our sworn enemies from attacking us.

If we can't even do what is basic to the survival of a nation, why should we be able to achieve more lofty and abstract goals such as "true freedom" and "justice"?
Indeed there is great utility in maintaining offshore sites for the purpose of extraordinary interrogation and detention of suspected terrorists. Great utility.

Glad to you see you also coming around to the reality of the end justifies the means (providing the end is justifiable).

Looks good on you.
It's not a utilitarian argument. it's a social commentary.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Oh I see, in this instance it's a social commentary. All the same though, offshore rendition sites for the purpose of extraordinary interrogation of suspected terrorists are of tremendous utility, n'est pas?
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
From Wikipedia, regarding the British internment of IRA and other suspected terrorists in the 1970's:

Quote:
 
Aftermath

Internment itself remained in place until 1975 and CAIN states that of those interned 1,874 were Republicans, while 107 were Loyalists. The policy has been widely criticised by achieving the opposite of its desired effect as it helped increase support for Irish Republicans and further isolate the Nationalist community. Following internment a serving officer of the British Marines declared, "It (internment) has, in fact, increased terrorist activity, perhaps boosted IRA recruitment, polarised further the Catholic and Protestant communities and reduced the ranks of the much needed Catholic moderates."
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
A good start.

Now if we could just say goodbye to the CIA.
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
JBryan
Jan 24 2009, 07:05 AM
These sites were in all probablity closed long ago and their residents transfered to Gitmo. Once they were exposed they became non-viable. A purely meaningless gesture on the part of Obama other than to assure our enemy that they will never have to see the inside of one of these sites. Pure grandstanding at the expense of our security.
A meaningless gesture and a threat to our security? At the same time?


Man, Obama's good. Even his empty gestures are consequential.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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The Devil Himself
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Junior Carp
QuirtEvans
Jan 24 2009, 04:51 AM
Mikhailoh
Jan 24 2009, 04:49 AM
the devil is in the details, isn't it?
No, the devil is in Crawford, or somewhere else in Texas.

Get with the program, please.
No, really. I'm in the details. Trust me on this one.
Please allow me to introduce myself
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Renauda
Jan 24 2009, 12:45 PM
Oh I see, in this instance it's a social commentary. All the same though, offshore rendition sites for the purpose of extraordinary interrogation of suspected terrorists are of tremendous utility, n'est pas?
Ask Al Gore. For him its a no brainer.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
jon-nyc
Jan 24 2009, 01:47 PM
JBryan
Jan 24 2009, 07:05 AM
These sites were in all probablity closed long ago and their residents transfered to Gitmo. Once they were exposed they became non-viable. A purely meaningless gesture on the part of Obama other than to assure our enemy that they will never have to see the inside of one of these sites. Pure grandstanding at the expense of our security.
A meaningless gesture and a threat to our security? At the same time?


Man, Obama's good. Even his empty gestures are consequential.
Announcing that he will be closing these sites down is obviously meaningless if these sites have already been closed down but announcing it to the world can have real consequences in terms of our security.

That mess you constructed from what I said must be a joke, right?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2009, 01:59 PM
Renauda
Jan 24 2009, 12:45 PM
Oh I see, in this instance it's a social commentary. All the same though, offshore rendition sites for the purpose of extraordinary interrogation of suspected terrorists are of tremendous utility, n'est pas?
Ask Al Gore. For him its a no brainer.
Your utilitarian slip is showing...again.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
JBryan
Jan 24 2009, 02:33 PM
Announcing that he will be closing these sites down is obviously meaningless if these sites have already been closed down but announcing it to the world can have real consequences in terms of our security.

That mess you constructed from what I said must be a joke, right?
Maybe I just misunderstood you - explain how what he did is a threat to security if the sites are already closed. Do you really think the mere existence of the sites is a deterrent to Islamist terrorists?
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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