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| Good article on antizionist theology among pal.; christian churches, lutheran particularl | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 12 2009, 08:55 PM (449 Views) | |
| Larry | Jan 12 2009, 08:55 PM Post #1 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Measuring the effects of Palestinian Christian propaganda Whereas the Zionist movement is largely political, at present it is also viewed through a theological prism. At the same time, one can observe the flourishing of local and pan-Arab nationalism. This process influenced a shaping of the collective identity and religion of contemporary Palestinian Christians. Their Arab nationalist identity presents Jewish sovereignty, of any kind, as a theological problem. Thus, Palestinian Christianity sharply opposes Christian Zionism, and along with Muslims views Jewish Zionism as a western Crusader Christendom. It seems that this “theological” nationalist movement of Palestinian Christians will remain on the public agenda for the time being. In this study Dr. Gershon Nerel employs a new comparative approach. Historical comparisons he uses for this analysis provide a unique insight into the political and theological world of Palestinian Christians. The establishment of the Jewish State in 1948, and the parallel emergence of a Palestinian entity, continuously affects the theological outlook of the Church vis-à-vis Israel and Palestinian Christians. Arab Christians of various denominations reproduce the anti-Israel theology that originated in the historic churches. When leading Palestinian prelates shape their identity, they infuse their antagonistic interpretations into the Bible, comprising Old and New Testaments. Arab Christians frequently refer to Church History as it unfolded during the past two millennia in order to lay claims for their particularistic theologies and national positions. Palestinian Christians closely link theology and the geopolitical reality. They claim historic rights with legal recognition, rooted in a “Palestinian gospel.” In fact, they validate their views using the biblical narrative. Authoritative clergymen among Palestinian Christians denounce contemporary Christian Zionism while opposing Israel through a systematic de-Judaization of the Bible. Among the monotheistic religions of the Middle East, one does not merely discover a bilateral encounter between Judaism and Christianity, but rather a trilateral encounter between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. All three groups strongly express their ‘position on Israel’ either as identifiers or as opponents. Thus, for example, Palestinian Christians and Palestinian Muslims find a common interest in attacking Zionism, Israel, and the “Jewish Bible.” The symbiosis between Palestinian Muslims and Palestinian Christians currently evolves around confronting Christian Zionism as a “dangerous heresy.” Nowadays, anti-Zionism, anti-Israelism and antisemitism are the product of the dialectical nature of the relationship between Jewish History, Church History and Islamic History. My research on Anti-Zionism in the “Electronic Church” of Palestinian Christianity was first presented in the session “Between Palestinians and Israelis: The Church and the Media,” at that Jerusalem conference on Antisemitism and Prejudice in the Contemporary Media. It showed that the historic anti-Jewish theology, as well as anti-Israel attitudes within the Church, are still attractive and influential. This is especially true of Arab churches within the Palestinian Authority which still adopt, revive and revise the anti-Israel heritage of Christianity. While Christian Zionists insist that theologically the Jews as a people still remain the Elect Nation in a divine plan, as well as legitimately possessing their biblical homeland, Palestinian Christians take an active part in a spiritual intifada against Israel. Leadership of Palestinian Christians, Catholic, Protestant and Greek Orthodox, now use the media to disseminate anti-Zionist and anti-Israeli propaganda, allegedly based on the Bible. Thus, for example, the current “Palestinization” of Jesus, of Mary and of the Apostles, systematically attempts to manipulate the biblical narrative. Furthermore, when Palestinian prelates present Arab Christians as the authentic “Mother Church of Jerusalem”, they blatantly reshape historiography to fit their own aspirations in the Land, both from national and theological perspectives. (This part is talking about the church Kathy is friends with) The Lutheran website (www.holyland-lutherans.org) names Bishop Munib A. Younan as head of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan (ELCJ), which takes its name from the fact that its congregations were founded when the Old City of Jerusalem and the sites of other congregations were considered part of Jordan. While Younan proudly refers to his title of “Bishop in Jerusalem,” he constantly gives the impression that the Holy City belongs “only” to the Holy Land, not to Israel. The website page lists the congregations of the diocese, located in Jerusalem, Beit Jala, Bethlehem, Beit Sahour, Ramallah, and Amman, Jordan, and pointedly draws the reader’s attention to the fact that in 2002 these four urban areas (like other Palestinian cities) were again invaded by Israeli military troops. Curfews are often imposed on the urban areas, closing businesses, schools and universities, keeping people in their homes. Jerusalem continues to be disputed territory. Significantly, the address of the Church of the Redeemer in Jerusalem’s Old City is given as “Muristan Road,” with a postal code “via Israel.” Through the links of this Palestinian website, the reader can also observe a reference to the Lutheran World Federation (LWF; www.lutheranworld.org), which reveals that this organization does not recognize Israel, as if no Lutheran churches exist in Israel. Additional links point to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA; www.elca.org) and the World Council of Churches (WCC; www.wcc-coe.org). These websites are openly anti-Zionist and anti-Israel in their theology. Arab networking: Connecting Christianity and Islam Arab Christian replacement theology has a symbiotic relationship to the Islamic theology concerning Judaism. Palestinian Christians repeatedly declare that they are “an inseparable part of the Arab Islamic world, as well as being Christians by faith.” While recognizing some common roots with Jews, as Arab Christians they feel bound to point to a common heritage with Islam. This is how Lutheran Mitri Raheb puts it: "I think we have to go further and recognize that Islam, too, is included in this Jewish-Christian context, theologically and historically. We have things in common with Muslims too. Just as Judaism is part of the Christian history, so Islam is part of the history of the effects of Christianity." In reality, the Palestinian Christians were long ago mobilized on behalf of the nationalist cause, and coopted by Islamic forces against the Jews. Read the whole thing. It's quite interesting, and it will explain quite a lot. Very educational. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Jack Frost | Jan 12 2009, 08:59 PM Post #2 |
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Bull-Carp
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Larry, you said
Name ONE. jf |
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| Jeff | Jan 12 2009, 09:08 PM Post #3 |
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Senior Carp
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Larry - Thanks for the link. It explains a lot about the church kathy keeps referring to as her "source" and the validity of its "information" and perspective. |
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| Larry | Jan 12 2009, 09:12 PM Post #4 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Have nothing of value to add to this discussion, Jack? It's not surprising that the Lutheran Church harbors antisemitic views, you know. Martin Luther was a raging antisemite himself. That's why he was such a hit in Germany, you know.. Here's a quote from a pamphlet Martin Luther published entitled "Concerning the Jews and Their Lies": "Let me give you my honest advice: First, their synagogues or churches should be set on fire. And whatever does not burn up should be covered or spread over with dirt so that no one may ever be able to see a cinder or stone of it. And this ought to be done for the honor of God and of Christianity in order that God may see that we are Christians. Secondly, their homes should be broken down and destroyed. Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and the Talmud in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blaspheme are taught. Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under the threat of death to teach any more... Fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden to Jews. Let them stay at home. Sixthly, they ought to be stopped for usury. For this reason, as said before, everything they possess they stole and robbed us through their usury, for they have no other means of support. Seventhly, let the young and strong Jews and Jewesses be given the flail, the axe, the hoe, the spade, the distaff, and spindle, and let them earn their bread by the sweat of their noses as is enjoined upon Adam's children. We ought to drive the lazy bones out of our system. If however, we are afraid that they might harm us personally, or our wives, children, servants, cattle, et cetera.. then let us apply the same cleverness (expulsion) as the other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, et cetera.. and settle with them for that which they have extorted from us, and after having it divided up fairly, let us drive then out of the country for all time. To sum up, dear princes and notables who have Jews in your domains, if this advice of mine does not suit you, then find a better on so that you and we may all be free from this insufferable Jewish burden - the Jews." That's the words of Martin Luther, Jack. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Larry | Jan 12 2009, 09:15 PM Post #5 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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It's quite sad really, Jeffrey. They cannot even drop their antisemitism to embrace the true teachings of Christianity. They are compelled to force fit even this into their myopic "world view". |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| bachophile | Jan 12 2009, 09:15 PM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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if i may just interject..jsbach was a lutheran, and for that i forgive luther all his sins. |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Larry | Jan 12 2009, 09:17 PM Post #7 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Jack Frost | Jan 12 2009, 09:17 PM Post #8 |
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Bull-Carp
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Martin Luther was a long time ago. if you want to conemn the whole Lutheran faith, so be it. I think we all know where that puts you. In the meantime, you nave not responded to this comment of yours:
and i repeat...Name one...... jf |
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| Larry | Jan 12 2009, 09:18 PM Post #9 |
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So you'll know, Jeff, Bach - the belief system represented by the palestinian Christians is not in line with true Christian teachings. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Jeff | Jan 12 2009, 09:21 PM Post #10 |
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Senior Carp
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I believe some denominations of the Lutheran Church in the US didn't disavow Luther's writing of this sort until very recently (like the last decade or two, long after Vatican II, FWIW). I was quite shocked when I found this out. |
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| Larry | Jan 12 2009, 09:28 PM Post #11 |
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A lot of wrongs were done in the name of Christianity, Jeff. The Catholic Church (and to you Catholics, don't jump me over this - this is ancient history with no bearing on the Church today) was the worst, and the first.. Much of the propaganda the muslims spew is stuff they stole from the early Catholic church. But again, that has nothing to do with Catholics today, or Protestants, or Christianity. The only ones still engaged in it are muslims, and palestinian christians. |
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| Jeff | Jan 12 2009, 09:28 PM Post #12 |
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Senior Carp
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Yes, it took until the 1980's and 1990's for the various Lutheran groups to actually decide to reject anti-semitism and Luther's writings in On the Jews and Their Lies. The 1980's and 1990's. Astonishing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_the_Jews And while trying, sort of, to reject anti-semitism using every circumlocution in the book to avoid responsibility, still conclude by trying to convert Jews: http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2166 |
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| Radu | Jan 12 2009, 09:42 PM Post #13 |
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Senior Carp
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Amanda, me |
![]() ------------------------------------------------------------ "Whenever I hear of culture... I release the safety-catch of my Browning!" The modern media has made cretins out of so many people that they're not interested in reality any more, unless it's reality TV (Jean D'eaux) | |
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| OperaTenor | Jan 12 2009, 09:47 PM Post #14 |
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Pisa-Carp
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I guess the past antisemitism of the Catholic church is still applicable as well. |
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| Larry | Jan 12 2009, 09:53 PM Post #15 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Jeff, here's another interesting website that shows the subversive nature of not this: Palestinian Solidarity Movement meets at Georgetown University This is a group the palestinian christians are heavily involved with.... Quoting some of their "training strategies"..... Briefly, the idea is to annihilate Israel as a Jewish state. The strategies adopted for doing it are boycotts and divestment campaigns that isolate Israel and cast it in the role of apartheid South Africa. Do I exaggerate? Here is Mohamed Abed: Divestment and Boycott have a successful precedent in South Africa. Isolation of cultural spheres in the intellectual community will help isolate Israel. Jews must be prepared for a future in Palestine. There will be no division of the land... Make sure they understand that divestment and boycott should be implemented, and this is a unifying factor for activists. This should be stressed, that this in not just a Palestinian cause, but for all of us who believe in multiculturalism. This is very attractive to liberals, and engaging. The situation is now at a standstill, and this is a last vestige of hope. This plan for the destruction and submersion of the entire entire Jewish people in Israel, the annihilation of our national existence, is announced under the heading of multiculturalism and liberal values. Even Goebbels could not do half so well as this! The tactics are masterful. "The Book" on subversion of this sort was written by none other than V.I. Lenin over 100 years ago, in articles like "What is to be done?" Then it was rewritten by Mao Tse-Tung. These people have studied every page of those books. They added the "Look Legit" tactic of the USA Mafia. From Vladimir Ilyich Lenin for example, they learn the value of small cells well as the fundamentals of subversion. : 3. Large versus small communities The large are good, but there are many ideas in a large community, it is harder to reach out, and there is less personal connection. 4. Small Communities This is the most efficient means as they share the same values, and the same ideas. Make yourself part of their one family and target them, with one message, “free Palestine” and human rights abuses. Indeed, small communities and small cells also do not attract unwanted attention as Lenin noted, and they are so easy to subvert - just make believe you are one of them: 8. First Impressions The way you walk, the ways you talk are all very important “Look Christian” “Study Christian Culture, understand it, so you can create Christian solidarity to then reach out to Palestinian solidarity.” 9. Frame the Issue How you look and talk are important, Become part of their family, proper grooming is a must, and maintain a friendly and a good social demeanor.” “Become the Ned Flanders (Simpson’s character) of your church” Avoid profane language. Ban language that does not fall into the values of a Christian home. Otherwise you will not be taken seriously. Mind your manners – “say “G-d blesses you” when someone sneezes. “Hi, How are you”, and show solidarity, and act “Christian like”. In other words, walk the walk and talk the talk. Be a pious hypocrite like Ned Flanders, who was of course created as a figure of fun. Note that they really and truly referred to Mr. Flanders. This is what they really think of the Christianity! Nothing is sacred: Exploit, dissemble, subvert. A huge confidence game. Lenin and Mao and Lucky Luciano are not enough: 10. Come bearing Gifts Everyone love gifts, and the Holy land is important to all Christians. Get a gift of a rosary, or holy water, and then tell them about the plight of the Christians in Palestine. This is a good way to raise money as well, to sell the items in Church to help the Christians in the holy land feed their children, they will love this, and it brings them closer to the origin on their religion. Remember Homer and the Trojan horse? "Beware of Palestinians and they bear gifts." But that is not enough: 12. The role of Sex Use your sexuality to your advantage... |
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| Larry | Jan 12 2009, 09:57 PM Post #16 |
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No, OT. If you read my post, I plainly said that 1. The very source of most of the antisemitic propaganda that muslims believe was stolen from the early Catholics, and 2. I was very careful to point out that this is ancient history having nothing to do with the Catholic Church today. Pope John Paul formally acknowledged the Church's sins against the Jews, formally apologized, asked forgiveness, and established a new relationship with the Jewish people. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Jeff | Jan 13 2009, 04:24 AM Post #17 |
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Senior Carp
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Past?? A 2000 year organization does not change in one day. |
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| Piano*Dad | Jan 13 2009, 04:52 AM Post #18 |
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Bull-Carp
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Ah, you forgot lots of left-wing intellectuals.
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| Piano*Dad | Jan 13 2009, 04:54 AM Post #19 |
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Bull-Carp
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... and this is anti-semitism as work. If you support boycotts of Israel while buying Chinese goods I consider you anti-semitic. |
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