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Vatican deplores Gaza situation; likens Gaza to concentration camp
Topic Started: Jan 7 2009, 06:06 PM (811 Views)
Jeff
Senior Carp
kathyk
Jan 11 2009, 04:34 PM
So, let's push them even further back into the Stone age. Let the children suffer from malnutrition, deprive them of good education, and particularly of western, secular education. That's bound to alleviate the situation and to get them to embrace Israel (who's depriving them) rather than Hamas (who's providing for them).
Hamas has chosen to wage eternal war rather than provide an economy for the Palestinians. Your legitimate and valid concerns should be directed at Hamas, not Israel.

Weakening Hamas militarily is essential for any chance of peace and prosperity in the region.
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
kathyk
Jan 11 2009, 07:04 AM
bachophile
Jan 9 2009, 09:41 PM
Jeff
Jan 9 2009, 09:31 PM
kathyk
Jan 8 2009, 05:50 AM
Didn't you follow the debacle about the Palestinian Fulbright scholars who were denied exit visas and lost their scholarships?
Given their links with Hamas, the denials were legitimate.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1008866.html

also posted in the other thread....

sigh.
Well, there certainly is a discrepancy in the chain of events. This from the NY TImes I tend to believe this version over the article you posted. This was a huge ongoing mess that had a lot of coverage here, particularly among peace groups. And this paragraph from your article is also noteworthy:

Gisha, an Israeli organization aimed at protecting Palestinian freedom of movement, says the problems the Palestinian students faced are not out of the ordinary.

"In addition to the particular students who did not receive visas for technical reasons or unexplained security reasons, there are hundreds of students in the Gaza Strip who were accepted by universities abroad and have valid visas," said Gisha executive director Sari Bashi. But, she added, "Israel issues a comprehensive ban on students from Gaza going abroad, as part of its policy of collective punishment toward Gaza residents, thereby impinging on the right to education of hundreds of talented young people who want to study, develop and create a better future in our region."

Jeff, if connections with Hamas was the criteria for refusing exit visas, virtually every student in Gaza would be denied since Hamas is so entrenched in all of the institutions in Gaza, including the universities.
well if u trust the times.. the same story in haaretz appears in the times.

dated august 2008, 2 months after the article u cited.

3 Fulbright Winners in Gaza Again Told They Can’t Travel

my point is...while u are so quick to accuse israeli sources of deciet and propaganda, yet u dont hesitate to use the same hyperbole right back.

cant u even acknowedge this? u really want to believe that israel is the evil monster and anything which it does is suspect.

it saddens me deeply. as dewey said, how can someone so intelligent, be so skewed and misdirected on this issue.

but to paraphrase another palestinian, once said long ago...

forgive her, for she (really) doesnt know what she is doing.



"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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kathyk
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Pisa-Carp
I don't view Israel as an evil monster. Now who is using hyperbole? I hate the direction of your government at the moment. I think the right wing hawks who are presently dominating politics in Israel are dangerous, just as I thought that my government under the direction of the neo-cons was dangerous (two ugly peas in a pod).

I do believe that most Israelis have entirely divorced themselves of the realities of the desperation and horrors that their government is visiting on the Palestinians under their occupation and control (Bless the hearts of the stalwart minority in Israel who continue to champion human rights causes and speak out against the government .I stand in solidarity with them). What I find sad, is that this phenomenon seems to be growing. From what I've been reading, there is a steady stream of moderate Israelis leaving the country, while many of the recent settlers are prone to extremism and hawkishness. Israel has been an amazing story of a beleaguered people building a thriving democracy in the desert. What a tragedy if its lost of empathy and humanity toward its neighbors ends up being its demise.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
kathyk
Jan 12 2009, 07:54 AM
What a tragedy if its lost of empathy and humanity toward its neighbors ends up being its demise.
You mean the neighbors who want to destroy it?
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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