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Question for GeorgeK; (probably boring for others)
Topic Started: Dec 17 2008, 08:14 PM (331 Views)
greg
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Middle Aged Carp
George,

I work in the medical education industry, and (as you probably know) there's been a bit of controversy lately regarding the issue of commercial support (ie, pharmaceutical funding) of CME activities. Have you followed the various arguments and do you have any particular opinion? I'm just curious.
"What do you think it is, stupid? It's a string for my lute."
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Greg, I work for Abbott. Pharmaceutical funding of CME activities is a complicated issue. I presume you are referring to recent statements from the ACCME, AAMC and US Senate. I would like to comment, but am wondering if you have any specific concerns or questions.

I would like to state that I find it quite hypocritical for US senators to be concerned about free pens unduly influencing physicians, while insisting that free travel provided by special interests have no effect on their own decision-making process. :rolleyes:
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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George K
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Finally
RR got it right. I seriously doubt that any reasonable doc would base his/her prescribing on the provision of a pen, notepad, or even a lunch. However, I read about (and not in my specialty, fwiw) much more lucrative incentives to docs.

Any CME that I see, in my field, is filled with so many disclaimers that it's hard to tell what is being sold (at least as far as the 'read the article and answer the questions' type of thing goes). The test always asks "Did you see any bias?" at the end. That's probably a good thing.

I'm not sure if that's helpful at all, Greg. Perhaps, as RR said, if you could be a bit more specific, I could address issues/concerns.

By the way, the banner ad at the bottom of the page says, "Become a Marketing Rock Star." :lol2:
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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greg
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Middle Aged Carp
Thanks RR and George. No specific concerns - I was just curious about whether you see pharmaceutical funding as a problem and where you see this coming to a head. My company is adapting by partnering with academic societies and institutions and bracing ourselves for what could be a difficult environment.

We sent out a survey to doctors, and the responses contained two clear themes:
1) They were offended by the notion that they had to be 'protected' from potential bias (as if they could not detect it themselves)
2) They were pessimistic about their ability to pay for CME if pharmaceutical support were cut off

"What do you think it is, stupid? It's a string for my lute."
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George K
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Finally
Interesting, Greg.

I, for one, am not offended by the notion that I have to be protected from bias. I'm an old fart, but I think I can see the bias in a CME effort. If a drug company is going to offer a "CME Meeting" at Morton's Steakhouse, I get suspicious - and I don't attend. If anything, if I perceive bias, it makes me distrustful of the product. I suppose that manufacturers will just have to get more creative about hiding their pitches.

As to your second point, CME is where you find it, and look for it. Most states requirements for the minimum necessary to keep your license. Illinois is at 50 hours/year. That's a lot (and IMHO, unreasonable). But it's doable. I take courses online from my insurance provider (which cuts my malpractice premium by 15% and gives me 15 hours), I take tests in journals (which costs me about another $10 an hour).

Meetings are expensive these days, so many docs are going the routes I mentioned.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Greg, I feel that given the scrutiny (justified or not) that pharmaceutical funding for CME activities is getting, it's probably not worth it any more. There are other ways to reach physicians and institutional decision-makers that are less controversial. Not that it's ever cheap or easy though. Physicians are a notoriously difficult group to market to; they tend to be cynical and on their guard, as well as creatures of habit. For clinic and hospital purchasers, cost is always the overriding factor. Abbott could buy senators much more easily.

We will definitely see a lot less of the big event resort-type CME offerings than we used to, even if it weren't for the downturn in the economy.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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George K
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Finally
Cynical? Moi?
Creature of Habit? Me?

Surely, you jest.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
George, of course you know I wasn't referring to you. I know for a fact that you are educated, intelligent and discerning enough to be open to new ideas and techniques.

Which is why I am absolutely certain you and your colleagues would be interested in some of the new products Abbott is offering to enhance the safety, ease and profitability of your anesthesia practice. If you'd like, we can discuss the details over cognac and a couple of thick juicy steaks at one of Chicago's finest restaurants. :D

(Damn, I still got it. Even when I'm wasting time at work, I'm working.)
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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George K
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Finally
That was good, RR. Really good.

Smooth too.

You guys used to make Pentothal®. Haven't used the stuff in a decade.

Now, Sevo....if it were a woman, I'd marry it.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Aqua Letifer
Member Avatar
ZOOOOOM!
Red Rice
Dec 18 2008, 12:37 PM
George, of course you know I wasn't referring to you. I know for a fact that you are educated, intelligent and discerning enough to be open to new ideas and techniques.

Which is why I am absolutely certain you and your colleagues would be interested in some of the new products Abbott is offering to enhance the safety, ease and profitability of your anesthesia practice. If you'd like, we can discuss the details over cognac and a couple of thick juicy steaks at one of Chicago's finest restaurants. :D

(Damn, I still got it. Even when I'm wasting time at work, I'm working.)
Hey, I practice anestesha too, RR! I drink myself numb every weekend! What say you hit me up with somma dem steaks too!
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Ultane = happiness
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Aqua Letifer
Dec 18 2008, 12:52 PM
Hey, I practice anestesha too, RR! I drink myself numb every weekend! What say you hit me up with somma dem steaks too!
A requirement for free steaks is the proper spelling of the word "anesthesia". Sorry, AL. :lol:
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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