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Guess who's giving the invocation; at the inaugural?
Topic Started: Dec 17 2008, 12:17 PM (846 Views)
Jack Frost
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Bull-Carp
Frank_W
Dec 17 2008, 07:02 PM
I'm all for giving Obama the benefit of the doubt. I don't particularly like or dislike him, at the moment. I do think the press has given him a free pass, and spent an inordinate time ripping Sarah Palin apart and jeering at John McCain.

Also, Jack: The presidential term is 4 years. Not 8. Let's take things one term at a time, shall we?
Fair enough, Frank. I predict in 4 years you will be voting for him.

jf
Quote:
 
Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back nor did we falter; and with eyes fixed on the horizon and God's grace upon us, we carried forth that great gift of freedom and delivered it safely to future generations.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Mikhailoh
Dec 17 2008, 07:26 PM
The left annointed and elected an opportunist. It doesn't mean he will be a bad president, but it was clear from day one that he will do what is in his own best interests.


I suspect at some point he realized that has to do what is in the best interests of the country, which of course explains all his volte-face maneuvers.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Why not? Worked for Clinton. Just co-opt the other side's ideas as your own.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Mikhailoh
Dec 17 2008, 07:59 PM
Why not? Worked for Clinton. Just co-opt the other side's ideas as your own.
Right, but coopting the other sides ideas is what is best for the country. :lol2:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Jack Frost
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Jolly
Dec 17 2008, 07:23 PM
Copper
Dec 17 2008, 07:21 PM
AlbertaCrude
Dec 17 2008, 07:20 PM
Ah, I see. Not unlike Napoleon crowning himself emporer.

Have you met Quirt?
Quirt's not that short...not since he started his Viagra regimen...
Quirt is very impressive in person. In more ways I can begin to describe.

Jolly, your feeble attempt to belittle him beliitles you. Many of us have met Quirt and can vouch for his integrity.

You hide so much you might as well be a sockpuppet.

If you have half the bravado you pretend to have, put your real self out here. You are about the biggest most fearful chicken here. You know, most of us have actually met each other. Shook hands. Looked each other in the eyes.

You are about the biggest coward here for all your false bravado. Easy enough to snip at our heels while you hide...

jf
Quote:
 
Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back nor did we falter; and with eyes fixed on the horizon and God's grace upon us, we carried forth that great gift of freedom and delivered it safely to future generations.
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Bernard
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ivorythumper
Dec 17 2008, 03:50 PM
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It is a grave disappointment to learn that pastor Rick Warren will give the invocation at the inauguration of Barack Obama.

He has repeated the Religious Right's big lie that supporters of equality for gay Americans are out to silence pastors.


Oh, the irony....
IT,
It's not that ironic. No one is trying to suppress Rick Warren's right to free speech or the right to practice his religion as he desires, or his right to preach.

That's one thing.

It's another thing for BO to invite him to the one of the biggest gigs of the year where symbolism plays a leading role. Coming on the heels of Prop.8 and the way BO threw it in our faces during the election, it's clear, as Andrew Sullivan wrote today (and he was/is a big supporter of BO, much to my chagrin*), " ... if anyone is under any illusion that Obama is interested in advancing gay equality, they should probably sober up now. ... pandering to Christianists at his inauguration is a depressing omen. More evidence that a civil rights movement needs to realize that no politician can deliver for us what we have to deliver on our own."



(* And I think he's wrong on the Clintons too, and I've pretty much stopped reading his blog but I was interested to read what he thought of this latest development so I checked in this evening after a bit of an absence.)
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Bernard
Dec 17 2008, 08:33 PM
ivorythumper
Dec 17 2008, 03:50 PM
Quote:
 
It is a grave disappointment to learn that pastor Rick Warren will give the invocation at the inauguration of Barack Obama.

He has repeated the Religious Right's big lie that supporters of equality for gay Americans are out to silence pastors.


Oh, the irony....
IT,
It's not that ironic. No one is trying to suppress Rick Warren's right to free speech or the right to practice his religion as he desires, or his right to preach.

That's one thing.

It's another thing for BO to invite him the one of the biggest gigs of the year where symbolism plays a leading role. Coming on the heels of Prop.8 and the way BO threw it in our faces during the election, it's clear, as Andrew Sullivan wrote today (and he was/is a big supporter of BO, much to my chagrin), " ... if anyone is under any illusion that Obama is interested in advancing gay equality, they should probably sober up now. ... pandering to Christianists at his inauguration is a depressing omen. More evidence that a civil rights movement needs to realize that no politician can deliver for us what we have to deliver on our own."



They obviously don't want him or his views to have any part of the proceedings. I can appreciate why they would feel that way, but then they should not in the same breathe pontificate about "the Religious Right's big lie that supporters of equality for gay Americans are out to silence pastors." It just just too obvious that their rhetoric is self serving.

And what the heck is a Christianist? :blink:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Bernard
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IT, if you didn't get my drift from the last post I wrote then I think nothing I can say will make any difference. (But I gave you some lea way, I said it wasn't that ironic.) Simply: taking away the loud speaker is not the same thing as silencing someone.

A Christianist is something that Andrew was devoting some space to over the past year or so--at least up to when I stopped frequenting his blog. In a nutshell: "Christianity, in this view, is simply a faith. Christianism is an ideology, politics, an ism." Perhaps this article will help clarify, and there are plently of other articles out there, you can google them: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1191826-1,00.html
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
It's a common tactic of the left, Bernard. Of course no one was trying to "silence" Bob Casey or deprive him of his First Amendment rights when he was uninvited to speak to the DNC for his pro life views.

Sorry, I don't buy it. If someone wants to control the politics at a public platform, they are silencing voices they don't agree with. It happens all the time -- just don't shovel the BS about it being a big lie that's what they are trying to.

Christianist -- got it. Thanks. Just another way of labeling and marginalizing people you disagree with and want to marginalize.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Bernard
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Well, it's a common tactic of the right too, but I see your point. You're right. He should also invite the KKK to speak so they don't feel they're being silenced.

I might come back with more thoughts later.
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VPG
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Pisa-Carp
jon-nyc
Dec 17 2008, 06:02 PM
Copper
Dec 17 2008, 05:57 PM
In God We Trust.

It got us to #1 on the top country list.

We didn't put that phrase in the pledge until the 50s, and some people think its been all down hill from there..
"In God We Trust" is not in the Pledge. One nation 'Under God" is.
I'M NOT YELLING.........I'M ITALIAN...........THAT'S HOW WE TALK!


"People say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look."
Ronald Reagan, Inaugural, 1971

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George K
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Finally
They said if you voted McCain/Palin, you'd have evangelical preachers close to the White House.


I guess they were right.
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- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
As I said, it happens all the time. I even understand why the Left feels really betrayed by Obama, and why the gay marriage movement sees this particularly as a slap in the face.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Bernard
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George K
Dec 17 2008, 09:23 PM
They said if you voted McCain/Palin, you'd have evangelical preachers close to the White House.


I guess they were right.
Hee hee. (We should have a half-laugh emoticon.)
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Bernard
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ivorythumper
Dec 17 2008, 09:24 PM
As I said, it happens all the time. I even understand why the Left feels really betrayed by Obama, and why the gay marriage movement sees this particularly as a slap in the face.
I'm not sure I remember what the point of our discussion was... you pointed out something you thought was ironic, I responded that it wasn't that ironic...

You've made it sound (not intentionally I know) that the inauguration is a free-for-all. If that were the case then not wanting Warren there could be seen as suppression. But it's not, as we know, a free for all. The roles are all hand picked after much consideration and there's room for only so many people.

There is absolutely, undeniably no refuting the notion that gays and lesbians (I'm curious about all the Palin haters and denigraters) did not want to see Warren picked to give the invocation. This does not equate to wanting him silenced. Just because you don't get picked for an honored position doesn't mean you are being suppressed. That's my point and I believe it is the way many--I cannot speak for them--gays and lesbians see this.

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Bernard
Dec 17 2008, 10:03 PM
ivorythumper
Dec 17 2008, 09:24 PM
As I said, it happens all the time. I even understand why the Left feels really betrayed by Obama, and why the gay marriage movement sees this particularly as a slap in the face.
I'm not sure I remember what the point of our discussion was... you pointed out something you thought was ironic, I responded that it wasn't that ironic...

You've made it sound (not intentionally I know) that the inauguration is a free-for-all. If that were the case then not wanting Warren there could be seen as suppression. But it's not, as we know, a free for all. The roles are all hand picked after much consideration and there's room for only so many people.

There is absolutely, undeniably no refuting the notion that gays and lesbians (I'm curious about all the Palin haters and denigraters) did not want to see Warren picked to give the invocation. This does not equate to wanting him silenced. Just because you don't get picked for an honored position doesn't mean you are being suppressed. That's my point and I believe it is the way many--I cannot speak for them--gays and lesbians see this.

Fair enough. I have no problem with not wanting to see someone picked and making a statement about it, but then they can't credibly use use such hyperbolic language about it being a big lie when the end result would be exactly the same whether he was disinvited due to the political pressure they are obviously trying to create or he was silenced in any other manner.

Call me cynical, but in the age of "hate crimes" and "hate language" legislation, I doubt those who called for his censure really give a patootie about first amendment rights if it silences the voices of their opponents.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Jack Frost
Dec 17 2008, 07:51 PM
Frank_W
Dec 17 2008, 07:02 PM
I'm all for giving Obama the benefit of the doubt. I don't particularly like or dislike him, at the moment. I do think the press has given him a free pass, and spent an inordinate time ripping Sarah Palin apart and jeering at John McCain.

Also, Jack: The presidential term is 4 years. Not 8. Let's take things one term at a time, shall we?
Fair enough, Frank. I predict in 4 years you will be voting for him.

jf
You may be right. I honestly hope that Obama does a WONDERFUL job!! I really mean it. I hope he supercedes everyone's greatest expectations and hopes. I'm not a Democrat and neither am I a Republican. I'm more than willing to give the man a fair shake, which is far more than what the media has been willing to do. They've been just as unfair in cheerleading for him, as they have in excoriating Palin.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Copper
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Shortstop

I may be misremembering, but I thought Mr. Obama made it clear he had little support for the gay movement.

Of course I'm sure this position changed from time to time.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Perhaps he's taken a wider stance on the issue? :devilgrin:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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