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Pirates!!
Topic Started: Nov 18 2008, 06:03 AM (851 Views)
Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/11/18/kenya.tanker.pirates/?iref=mpstoryview

I don't get it. Such a huge ship obviously cannot disappear. The military ships in the area know where the tanker is. They know where they are heading to.

Why don't they stop them? I understand that they are concerned about the safety of the crew, but it still seems to be the logical thing to do, no?
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Bump!
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Copper
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Shortstop

I think they are worried about the crew & cargo.

It might be cheaper to just pay.


The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
There is a clear difference between hostage situations motivated by politics and simple piracy motivated by money. Israel HAD to go in to Entebbe to avoid a catastrophe, but they took a huge risk in doing so. Saudi Arabia and Ukraine (whose ships have been seized recently) can avoid risk by paying. There is bad political karma from rescuing dead crew members who were in little or no physical danger before you tried to rescue them.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating paying the new Barbary Pirates ad nauseam. How to deal with it? Well, I don't think any current sovereign power wishes to engage the pirates on the ground or to try to hold territory in Somalia to reorder the place politically. That seems to leave two options.

1. Selective reprisal with extreme prejudice. The US is unlikely to risk a ship rescue because of the potential backlash if a dozen Ukrainian, Russian, or Philippino crew members die in a cross fire. On the other hand, the Saudi's might very well be willing to take that risk with their own citizens (if that is who is crewing this ship). We could easily help to land their commandos on the ship and let nature take its course. One or two examples of entire pirate assault parties winding up as shark bait might change the dynamics of piracy. The United States would never engage in such brutal and summary judgment. Other nations might.

2. Vigorous patrol and escort policy. Fire on any craft that does not heed warnings to steer clear of shipping. This requires a set of nations to cooperate in setting rules of engagement and in supporting one another in case of accidental killings (blowing up an innocent speed boat whose radio didn't work and which happened to get within 100 meters of a freighter).

#2 is expensive, but we should probably do it. #1 would likely require some level of #2 for a while anyway, just to ensure that the pirates didn't simply switch to prey from nations that would never dream of hanging pirates from the yard arm without benefit of multi-million dollar defense lawyers and three-year due process.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Saudi commandos?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
Yes, Saudi Commandos
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Why don't they just arm freighters and tankers with a few surface to surface missile launcers.. grenade launchers, heavy machine guns? See a pirate? Take 'em out. Problem solved, cheaper for the companies than paying ransom. Pirates will be unlikely to attempt a target that can fight back.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
Any boat pulling alongside a ship with an obvious attempt to board, should be taken out with a sub.

They'd never know what hit them (torpedo), but word would get back to other pirates.
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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
C'mon folks, think a bit.

You don't aim at a 15 foot long shallow-draft speed boat with a 25 foot long torpedo from a submarine half a mile away. Sorry. That's not how it works.

You don't put surface to surface missiles and automatic weaponry on board a freighter unless you train every member of the crew as though they were naval cadets. Whoops, the cost of your anti-pirate program just went up a bit. Imagine the extra liability costs alone.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Quote:
 
A third ship -- a Chinese fishing vessel -- was hijacked Saturday, but word did not reach authorities until Tuesday, Howlett said.



What the heck are Chinese fishing trawlers doing that far west?
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
Unregulated fishing in Somali waters following the collapse of the government there may have been an important trigger of the pirate business. Many of the pirates are fisherman put out of business by large commercial fishing vessels (perhaps like this Chinese example) scooping up all life without regard to sustainability. Somali fishermen began exacting 'taxes' on these foreign trawlers as a way to get back at them for destroying the livelihood of local small-scale fishermen like themselves.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
I saw something on the history channel about a cruise ship that was under attack by pirates. they had a device on board that would emit a sound that was engineered so that it caused pain or discomfort of some kind (I am doing this from memory) and could be directed. The pirates were driven off by that.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
Piano Dad:
C'mon folks, think a bit.


OK, you're right. Not to worry, I did not forward my idea to the secretary of the Navy. But thanks for allowing enjoyable discourse for a brief moment.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Piano*Dad
Nov 18 2008, 11:27 AM
C'mon folks, think a bit.

You don't aim at a 15 foot long shallow-draft speed boat with a 25 foot long torpedo from a submarine half a mile away. Sorry. That's not how it works.

You don't put surface to surface missiles and automatic weaponry on board a freighter unless you train every member of the crew as though they were naval cadets. Whoops, the cost of your anti-pirate program just went up a bit. Imagine the extra liability costs alone.
How about loading them up with some of these?

Posted Image
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Interesting... All sorts of creative ideas come to mind for dealing with these bastards.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Copper
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Shortstop

I don't know... Those pirates can be clever.

Posted Image
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
BOILING OIL DUMPED OVER THE SIDES!!!

High pressure hose shooting ACID!

Percussion grenades.

18,000 hp engines on the freighter. Outrun the suckers.

All deck hands scream NAAA-NAAA-BOO-BOO! at the same time.

(I'm still think'n. . .)
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Atomize vomiting agent on them before they can make it aboard the ship. I don't think it will kill them, but they will be too busy barfing to do anything but lie in the bottom of their vessel and wish for death.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
Good idea, Frank!

hmmm. We can't kill 'um?

That changes everything. You're taking the fun out of it. . .
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Piano*Dad
Nov 18 2008, 11:27 AM
C'mon folks, think a bit.

You don't aim at a 15 foot long shallow-draft speed boat with a 25 foot long torpedo from a submarine half a mile away. Sorry. That's not how it works.

You don't put surface to surface missiles and automatic weaponry on board a freighter unless you train every member of the crew as though they were naval cadets. Whoops, the cost of your anti-pirate program just went up a bit. Imagine the extra liability costs alone.
PD, you're right about a torpedo. But you only need one security officer trained in that weaponry per ship. Mercenaries are not hard to find, and it would not take many pirates being blown out of the water before word got around that seadogs had teeth.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
Frankly, Mik, I really prefer this idea ....

Quote:
 
All deck hands scream NAAA-NAAA-BOO-BOO! at the same time.


:lol2:



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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
From an artistic perspective it has a certain Pythonesque charm. Tactically, I'm not too sure.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Rainman
Nov 18 2008, 12:05 PM
Good idea, Frank!

hmmm. We can't kill 'um?

That changes everything. You're taking the fun out of it. . .
Personally, I think it would be a helluva lot more fun to watch them throw up on each other and end up totally incapacitated, assuming the "dying cockroach" position in the hull of their boat. :lol2: :lol2:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Given that it seems to be so easy to capture an oil tanker, I wonder why terrorists did not yet have the idea to capture one of those and create a huge oil contamination somewhere where the costs will be quite high. I could imagine that this could be even more costly than rebuilding the WTC.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Nov 18 2008, 12:09 PM
Piano*Dad
Nov 18 2008, 11:27 AM
C'mon folks, think a bit.

You don't aim at a 15 foot long shallow-draft speed boat with a 25 foot long torpedo from a submarine half a mile away. Sorry. That's not how it works.

You don't put surface to surface missiles and automatic weaponry on board a freighter unless you train every member of the crew as though they were naval cadets. Whoops, the cost of your anti-pirate program just went up a bit. Imagine the extra liability costs alone.
PD, you're right about a torpedo. But you only need one security officer trained in that weaponry per ship. Mercenaries are not hard to find, and it would not take many pirates being blown out of the water before word got around that seadogs had teeth.
From what I understand the pirates use modern heavy weapons, and they are trained in using them effectively. And they attack with multiple boats. If you add to this the fact that their boats will be quite hard to hit, whereas a super tanker is obviously an easy target, I am not sure whether it will be so easy to defend a ship with one security officer.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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