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I guess there are still some racists
Topic Started: Nov 15 2008, 04:31 PM (2,091 Views)
Copper
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Shortstop
QuirtEvans
Nov 17 2008, 04:35 AM

I'll say this in advance, though ... if any of you try to use the security measures that the Secret Service will necessarily employ to score political points, you're pretty sorry excuses for human beings.

The secret service and other federal security agencies have been going overboard for years.

Since they closed Pennsylvania Ave. in 1995 they have been going downhill faster and faster.

I'd rather loose a president now and then or a building every once in a while than see our liberty be trampled.

And you can take your threats about political points and shove them.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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kathyk
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Lindy
Nov 17 2008, 07:17 AM
JBryan
Nov 17 2008, 07:05 AM
(so did Lindy, BTW).
Thanks, JB. I was hoping somebody noticed that.

Kathy, I was trying to be diplomatic and polite in my response to the questions at hand.

I would say the same thing about threats of violence against ANY president. Period.


In any event, the fact that you were able to say it sets you apart from the others here. It's no secret that my faithful cadre of detractors here are so entrenched in their hostility toward me that they couldn't admit I was right for declaring the sky was blue if they were being water boarded. So, I guess I should be more understanding.

In any event, I couldn't help but remember a time back at OCR that I was asked to denounce an anti-Bush ad that had been submitted to Moveon several years ago. They were running a contest, and it was one of 100s of submissions. Somehow, the RNC got hold of it and made hay of it. It didn't win the contest and was never publicized except for a very brief run on the Moveon site along with the hundreds of others. It was a clip comparing Bush to Hitler; no death threats; just your standard fare Godwin-type expression. I thought the ad was in poor taste and said as much. But, that wasn't enough. I was asked to denounce it. Here's the thread

What a different standard some of you hold for your own, huh? Death threats toward Obama are so hohum that it doesn't merit comment, except for snarky jokes, but an ad comparing Bush to Hitler brings out the Spanish Insquisition.
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
kathyk
Nov 17 2008, 06:50 AM
The FBI is saying that the number and level of threats is unprecedented
Source, please.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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kathyk
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/ap_on_el_pr/obama_threats
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kathyk
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Perhaps I am overly sensitive, paranoid, call it what you will. No thanks on the meds though - I won't even a pop an Advil anymore, but glad to know they work so well for you guys.

What weighs so heavily on my mind in the midst of the flurry of threats, which btw started well before the election, are three assassinations of three seminal leaders in the arena of social justice. I'm sure I don't have to name them. I was old enough during each of those horrible events to fully experience the horror, sorrow and the utter befuddlement over why. I was talking to Puffin about it the other day, and she pointed out that it seems only the good guys are killed. It does seem that way and all of the threats therefore become all the more foreboding; hence so much of the tension. I'm not alone

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
In any event, the fact that you were able to say it sets you apart from the others here. It's no secret that my faithful cadre of detractors here are so entrenched in their hostility toward me that they couldn't admit I was right for declaring the sky was blue if they were being water boarded. So, I guess I should be more understanding.


Go back and read the damned responses, idiot. No one here condones such a thing. No one here is being "ho hum" about it. Our reaction has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with your whining, self righteous, condescending attitude, and your ridiculous statements. You are insulting as a person.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Thanks for the link, but you'll notice that there's no report from the FBI, and the Secret Service does not comment on the number or level of threats. What is presented are claims from anonymous sources and anecdotal evidence, which I have difficulty taking seriously, no matter what the topic.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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kathyk
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Did I miss it? Can you show me a single response showing any concern about the threats or the prospect of an assassination attempt other than Lindy's? (Excluding Apple and JF)
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
I already expressed my concern about it in another thread. I really don't think people should be required to beat their breasts every time this subject comes up unless you really think there are those among us who genuinely wish Obama harm. I would think the prospect of a Joe "stand up Chuck!" Biden presidency would be deterrent enough.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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George K
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Finally
Kathy, for anyone to not be concerned about the assassination of a President is foolhardy. Everyone cares, really. It would be a horrible situation, as it was with Kennedy, McKinley, Lincoln, and (almost) Reagan.

What I don't understand is that you're concerned about not everyone joining you in the dance around the fire, that we're not waving our arms, screaming, "WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING."

Well, what do you propose to DO about it, other than complain about what you perceive to be other's complicity in an assassination?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Copper
Nov 17 2008, 07:46 AM
QuirtEvans
Nov 17 2008, 04:35 AM

I'll say this in advance, though ... if any of you try to use the security measures that the Secret Service will necessarily employ to score political points, you're pretty sorry excuses for human beings.

The secret service and other federal security agencies have been going overboard for years.

Since they closed Pennsylvania Ave. in 1995 they have been going downhill faster and faster.

I'd rather loose a president now and then or a building every once in a while than see our liberty be trampled.

And you can take your threats about political points and shove them.
I'm in complete agreement that the security measures are overdone. However, as you yourself just said,

Quote:
 
The secret service and other federal security agencies have been going overboard for years.


Which means it isn't a conservative/liberal issue, or a Republican/Democrat issue. It's a political establishment/risk aversion issue. The problem is the Secret Service et al. are not incented to establish a balance. Their incentive is to be as cautious and risk-averse as possible. If something ever goes wrong, in hindsight, no one ever says "I'd rather loose a president now and then or a building every once in a while than see our liberty be trampled." They blame the Secret Service.

And the thing about political points is that I know exactly how disingenuous you (and others) are. You'll say anything to score points. Honesty isn't your strong suit.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Kathy, why don't you go back and read the responses to the thread where the two white supremacists were arrested, who had an actual plan to assasinate Obama.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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kathyk
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Well, I missed that JB. Given that I don't read every single thread, it was a little difficult to look beyond your snarky comments here in summing up your position.
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kathyk
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Luke's Dad
Nov 17 2008, 08:25 AM
Kathy, why don't you go back and read the responses to the thread where the two white supremacists were arrested, who had an actual plan to assasinate Obama.
Alright, I will. As I said, I do not read every thread - not even close, so please don't expect me to know what you've said in other threads.
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kathyk
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George K
Nov 17 2008, 08:23 AM
Kathy, for anyone to not be concerned about the assassination of a President is foolhardy. Everyone cares, really. It would be a horrible situation, as it was with Kennedy, McKinley, Lincoln, and (almost) Reagan.

What I don't understand is that you're concerned about not everyone joining you in the dance around the fire, that we're not waving our arms, screaming, "WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING."

Well, what do you propose to DO about it, other than complain about what you perceive to be other's complicity in an assassination?
Thank you! That's all I would hope for. A genuine expression of concern.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
kathyk
Nov 17 2008, 08:29 AM
Luke's Dad
Nov 17 2008, 08:25 AM
Kathy, why don't you go back and read the responses to the thread where the two white supremacists were arrested, who had an actual plan to assasinate Obama.
Alright, I will. As I said, I do not read every thread - not even close, so please don't expect me to know what you've said in other threads.
Well, maybe you ought to take that into account before you start spouting out general charges of complicit behavior.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kathyk
Nov 17 2008, 07:50 AM

In any event, the fact that you were able to say it sets you apart from the others here. It's no secret that my faithful cadre of detractors here are so entrenched in their hostility toward me that they couldn't admit I was right for declaring the sky was blue if they were being water boarded. So, I guess I should be more understanding.

In any event, I couldn't help but remember a time back at OCR that I was asked to denounce an anti-Bush ad that had been submitted to Moveon several years ago. They were running a contest, and it was one of 100s of submissions. Somehow, the RNC got hold of it and made hay of it. It didn't win the contest and was never publicized except for a very brief run on the Moveon site along with the hundreds of others. It was a clip comparing Bush to Hitler; no death threats; just your standard fare Godwin-type expression. I thought the ad was in poor taste and said as much. But, that wasn't enough. I was asked to denounce it. Here's the thread

What a different standard some of you hold for your own, huh? Death threats toward Obama are so hohum that it doesn't merit comment, except for snarky jokes, but an ad comparing Bush to Hitler brings out the Spanish Insquisition.
I see the fact that a black man threatened Obama in order to get a reaction doesn't deter you one bit from your hysterical accusations thrown against those who are not so distractable.

I would hate to see any harm come to Obama as a person, or as our president, or any public official in office, or any private individual.

It should go without saying that an assassination against a government official is a direct attack on the common good and is among the worst of crimes that can be committed.

It should go without saying, but you appear to be too despising of conservatives to even give them the benefit of the doubt that such would be a foundational principle for them.

Really, Kathy, this is emblematic of why I think you are out of whack.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
kathyk
Nov 17 2008, 08:27 AM
Well, I missed that JB. Given that I don't read every single thread, it was a little difficult to look beyond your snarky comments here in summing up your position.
Every time you make a fool out of yourself this way you always blame it on "I don't read every single thread" or some similar excuse. That won't hold water - you've been told repeatedly why you are wrong, and why you are getting the reaction you're getting, and you refuse to accept that. Let me sum it up for you, Kathy - none of us agree with assassination attempts. None of us want that. You insulted us by insinuating that just because we won't join you in your chest thumping and psychotic hero worship that we don't care, and you insulted us with your asinine threat of "you'll have blood on your hands". That is a remark only an utter fool would make and then stand by it as if it meant anything.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
What is the purpose of a thread in which everyone emotes about how bad a particular hypothetical would be? I guess it's just not why I come here. To me, a decent thread has an issue that is intrinsically interesting and one that stimulates a general conversation that might just add information or arguments to what I already know. A good thread might affect the way I think about something.
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kathyk
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Luke's Dad
Nov 17 2008, 08:31 AM
kathyk
Nov 17 2008, 08:29 AM
Luke's Dad
Nov 17 2008, 08:25 AM
Kathy, why don't you go back and read the responses to the thread where the two white supremacists were arrested, who had an actual plan to assasinate Obama.
Alright, I will. As I said, I do not read every thread - not even close, so please don't expect me to know what you've said in other threads.
Well, maybe you ought to take that into account before you start spouting out general charges of complicit behavior.
How can I take something into account that I don't know about? Since you pointed the other thread out to me, I will read it when I get a moment, but it's rather presumptuos of you to suppose I've read everything you've ever written on this board. My comments were based solely on what I read on this thread before you or anyone else had pointed out that there had been a similar discussion. I think that's fairly reasonable.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Piano*Dad
Nov 17 2008, 09:00 AM
What is the purpose of a thread in which everyone emotes about how bad a particular hypothetical would be? I guess it's just not why I come here. To me, a decent thread has an issue that is intrinsically interesting and one that stimulates a general conversation that might just add information or arguments to what I already know. A good thread might affect the way I think about something.

Try the "I hate the laundromat " thread
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
Really? Should I? :whome:




I think Larry and I are on Kathy's ignore list (we're so similar :sombrero: ). I just wonder at the need some people display for finding emotional support in other peoples' agreement. Kathy finds a lot of that over at WTF, where there is a core group of friends who would find Jack's initial post to be an ideal conversation starter precisely because most of the conversation would consist of sharing the shared world view. Call it conformity if you will. There is certainly no left-wing monopoly on taking solace in a group's support. On the other hand, she comes here seemingly seeking the same thing and is perpetually flabbergasted and morally outraged at the different response she receives. Who knows, maybe some people also need to vent anger, and the differential response is satisfying that need while WTF provides the need for group envelopment.

BTW, she has psychologically deconstructed me in the past. I'm just humorously returning the favor. :wave:
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kathyk
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You know what baffles me, PD. If this is as worthless a thread as you've stated, why in the world are you spending so much time in it? And, IIRC, my "deconstructing" followed some pretty low blows from you. :wave:
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kathyk
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George K
Nov 17 2008, 08:23 AM
Kathy, for anyone to not be concerned about the assassination of a President is foolhardy. Everyone cares, really. It would be a horrible situation, as it was with Kennedy, McKinley, Lincoln, and (almost) Reagan.

What I don't understand is that you're concerned about not everyone joining you in the dance around the fire, that we're not waving our arms, screaming, "WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING."

Well, what do you propose to DO about it, other than complain about what you perceive to be other's complicity in an assassination?
No, that is not at all how I'd hope people to respond. I would either hope that wouldn't respond at all,because it's such worthless thread as PD pointed out, or that if they did, it would be with concern about this rather disturbing (at least to hysterical types like me) trend.

As I've indicated before, to a lot of backlash here, I feel that the McCain camp's dirty anti-Obama campaign greatly exacerbated this ugly trend. Hillary wasn't much better. As Nicholas Kristoff points out:

Here’s a sad monument to the sleaziness of this presidential campaign: Almost one-third of voters “know” that Barack Obama is a Muslim or believe that he could be. In short, the political campaign to transform Mr. Obama into a Muslim is succeeding. . . .A Pew Research Center survey released [in Sept.] found that only half of Americans correctly know that Mr. Obama is a Christian. Meanwhile, 13 percent of registered voters say that he is a Muslim, compared with 12 percent in June and 10 percent in March. . . . In conservative Christian circles and on Christian radio stations, there are even widespread theories that Mr. Obama just may be the Antichrist. John Green, of the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, says that about 10 percent of Americans believe we may be in the Book of Revelation’s “end times” and are on the lookout for the Antichrist. A constant barrage of e-mail and broadcasts suggest that Mr. Obama just may be it.

--------

Sarah Palin fanned these flames by stoking fear with her "palling with terrorists" and all the one-liners she trotted out long the lines of "he's not one of us." A fairly large swath of the population were openly encouraged to solidify their ignorance-based fears. Add to that phenomenon the racism factor, and now, lo and behold, death threats against an incoming president are at record levels.

The whole pretext of my indignation with some of you here is that you were just fine with how the McCain campaign stoked those fears, and now several of you have shown a complete lack of concern over the apparent backlash. This is what I mean by being complicit. We each have a rippling effect in our lives in the way we touch others. Your atitudes and actions often affect others in ways you will never know. If you go around giving the nod to the kind of fear mongering that pervaded the McCain campaign, you may well be giving pscyhological fodder to the next nutcase who will try to hatch an assassination.
Kind of like she did on your favorite TV station. :smokin: Liz Trotta jokes about Obama assassination The more you make light of and laugh about this sort of thing, the more you normalize it.

Remember, the "you're either with us or your against us" mandate from our dear president? Well, that's kind of how I'm feeling here when it comes to the physical safety of the president elect, whether you love or hate his policies.



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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kathyk
Nov 17 2008, 02:51 PM
No, that is not at all how I'd hope people to respond. I would either hope that wouldn't respond at all,because it's such worthless thread as PD pointed out, or that if they did, it would be with concern about this rather disturbing (at least to hysterical types like me) trend.

I honestly don't believe this. I don't think you are being honest with us.

You cannot reasonably claim that, after broadcasting this salvo against "complacency".
Quote:
 
On my life, if harm comes to Obama during between now and the end of his term as president, there are people on this board I will never forgive for their complacency in this which I will view as enabling of the hateful wave that seems to be gathering. Let's only hope that is is quelled.
Find a story and stick to it.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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