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being pro life outside the political arena
Topic Started: Nov 12 2008, 06:24 AM (4,745 Views)
kathyk
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QuirtEvans
Nov 14 2008, 11:28 AM
JBryan
Nov 14 2008, 10:17 AM
QuirtEvans
Nov 14 2008, 09:46 AM
JBryan
Nov 14 2008, 08:39 AM
Quote:
 
The person that comes about from that other pregnancy would not exist were it not for the termination.


I'm sorry but I don't see how that follows necessarily unless you have a one child policy or whatever number is one over the number the couple already has. There certainly are people who are not here because of abortion. Your attempt at inversion falls short of that certainty.
It's not a certainty, but it's a reasonable probability.

Would every family stop having children? No, of course not. Would some? I think that's a fairly safe assumption. It's a lot of work to deal with a Down's syndrome child.
The difference is that an abortion means the certainty of someone not being born. The concept of people being born because of abortion is highly speculative bordering on the absurd.
Highly speculative bordering on the absurd? There you go again. I think it's almost a rock-solid certainty that some people aren't born as a result of abortion, and that your hyerbolic overreaction proves that you know it, but just don't want to admit it.
You wrong on several notes here. First, the statistics on early miscarraige are very high. So, there is a very high probably that many early term abortions would have ended in miscarriage anyway. So, are those abortions worthy of damnation in hell?

Second, I bet it could be statistically validated that many, many people who have had abortions and have gone on to have their desired number of full term pregnancy start using birth control religiously at that point, thereby preventing future pregnancies that might have otherwise occurred. And conversely, the same person who had a target number of children in mind, had they been forced to carry the aborted pregnancy to term, would have prevented a later pregnancy in those cases the aborted potential life was replaced with a full term life.

So, between the aborted pregnancies that would have ended in miscarriage anyway and the pregnancies that would not have occurred if the woman had been forced to carry the unwanted pregnancy to term, I'm betting that of your 50 million innocent dead souls, there are a good many million who never would have come to be anyway.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
That is just sad, what we're doing to children.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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kathyk
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ivorythumper
Nov 14 2008, 11:32 AM
kathyk
Nov 14 2008, 11:20 AM
So in IT's thinking, ending this life

is much worse than treating a child like this:
Since you want to play the graphics game,

Yes, Kathy it is worse to kill someone than to beat them up. Both are terrible, but one is worse than the other.

Our legal system recognizes the same principle. You should have learned that in law school.
I think we can all agree that abortion at that late in the pregancy should be outlawed except if the mother's life would be endangered.

So, killing a 4 week old fetus is more reprehensible than abusing a child? I'm thinking you've had very little first hand experience with child abuse. :sad:
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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M&M's
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YOU BOTH ARE BEYOND RETARDED!
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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M&M's
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DELETE THE PICTURES!
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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M&M's
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FINE, I WILL BURY THE PICTURES!
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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Copper
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M&M's
Nov 14 2008, 11:40 AM
DELETE THE PICTURES!!!!!

I agree.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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M&M's
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DELETE THE PICTURES!

































DELETE THE PICTURES!
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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M&M's
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DELETE THE PICTURES!



























DELETE THE PICTURES!
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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DELETE THE PICTURES!
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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M&M's
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DELETE THE PICTURES!










DELETE THE PICTURES!























DELETE THE PICTURES!
















DELETE THE PICTURES!
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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M&M's
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DELETE THE PICTURES!












DELETE THE PICTURES!















DELETE THE PICTURES!

















DELETE THE PICTURES!
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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M&M's
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DELETE THE PICTURES!




















DELETE THE PICTURES!





















DELETE THE PICTURES!























DELETE THE PICTURES!
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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M&M's
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DELETE THE PICTURES!




























DELETE THE PICTURES!






























DELETE THE PICTURES!
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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M&M's
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DELETE THE PICTURES!







































































DELETE THE PICTURES!
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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kathyk
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I think the pictures are good. They force people to think. IT's clearly illustrates that he is incapable of nuanced thinking. Even though no one on this board has supported late term abortion and everyone agrees that there should be strict term limits, he pulls out gory late term abortion picture, the age-old shock tactic of the black thinking and white pro-lifers.

The picture I posted is one more the likes of which more people should see more often. Like it or not, child abuse, whether sexual or physical is very prevalent in society. I find it exceedingly hypocritical to get on their soap boxes about forcing women to carry pregnancies they don't want, but while seeming to have so little regard for protecting the innocent born children who so badly need protecting. That said, I wouldn't have even raised this argument but for the fact that IT stated that abortion is ever so much more despicable than child abuse.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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kathyk
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I think the pictures are good. They force people to think. IT's clearly illustrates that he is incapable of nuanced thinking. Even though no one on this board has supported late term abortion and everyone agrees that there should be strict term limits, he pulls out gory late term abortion picture, the age-old shock tactic of the black and white pro-lifers.

The picture I posted is one, the likes of which more people should see more often. Like it or not, child abuse, whether sexual or physical is very prevalent in society. I find it exceedingly hypocritical to get on their soap boxes about forcing women to carry pregnancies they don't want, but while seeming to have so little regard for protecting the innocent born children who so badly need protecting. That said, I wouldn't have even raised this argument but for the fact that IT stated that abortion is ever so much more despicable than child abuse.

IT says that at least the abused child has a life. Well, tell that to the child who is so damaged by abuse that they are in and out of psychiatric placements or eventually commits suicide, or the sociopath who ends up spending life in prison or the one so emtionally maimed that they live their life in a constant state of drunkeness. Me thinks IT doesn't have a clue about the devastating and all too common effects of child abuse.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kathyk
Nov 14 2008, 11:44 AM
I think we can all agree that abortion at that late in the pregancy should be outlawed except if the mother's life would be endangered.

So, killing a 4 week old fetus is more reprehensible than abusing a child? I'm thinking you've had very little first hand experience with child abuse. :sad:
We do not all agree on that.

The whole partial birth abortion movement shows that proborts are not willing to yield on anything.

Your beloved Obama would not even allow for the care of living survivors of abortion. That is reprehensible -- do you agree with him on that or not?

And don't presume to tell me what experience I've had with child abuse. You are way out of bounds.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Just report it, M&Ms, and let the mods deal with it. They delete offensive pictures all the time.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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kathyk
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ivorythumper
Nov 14 2008, 12:02 PM
kathyk
Nov 14 2008, 11:44 AM
I think we can all agree that abortion at that late in the pregancy should be outlawed except if the mother's life would be endangered.

So, killing a 4 week old fetus is more reprehensible than abusing a child? I'm thinking you've had very little first hand experience with child abuse. :sad:
We do not all agree on that.

The whole partial birth abortion movement shows that proborts are not willing to yield on anything.

Your beloved Obama would not even allow for the care of living survivors of abortion. That is reprehensible -- do you agree with him on that or not?

And don't presume to tell me what experience I've had with child abuse. You are way out of bounds.
Oh, bull pucky! Who on this board has supported partial birth abortion? How many of those procedures even occcur? What movement? Are you nuts.

As to your last point, that is such a flat out, thoroughly debunked lie, that it doesn't even merit comment.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
My nuanced thinking is fine. An innocent human being is never to be intentionally killed.

The nuances of "innocent" and "intentional" work well enough.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
I think it was ridiculously stupid for you to try to draw a comparison in the first place. This isn't a case of one being worse than the other, it's a case of one being just as bad as the other.

I do a lot of work with abused children, so don't you dare try to get snarky with me over what I'm about to say. But I understand what IT is trying to convey. child abuse is horrific - but they do at least usually survive it and continue to grow up and have a life. An aborted baby does not have this opportunity.

How anyone can abuse a child is beyond me. How anyone can look at the picture of the aborted child and say it is equivalent to child abuse is beyond me. You have to be 12 kinds of stupid.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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kathyk
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It was IT who drew the comparison. I was responding to it. It's always a good idea to read the posts before responding.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
QuirtEvans
Nov 14 2008, 11:28 AM
JBryan
Nov 14 2008, 10:17 AM
QuirtEvans
Nov 14 2008, 09:46 AM
JBryan
Nov 14 2008, 08:39 AM
Quote:
 
The person that comes about from that other pregnancy would not exist were it not for the termination.


I'm sorry but I don't see how that follows necessarily unless you have a one child policy or whatever number is one over the number the couple already has. There certainly are people who are not here because of abortion. Your attempt at inversion falls short of that certainty.
It's not a certainty, but it's a reasonable probability.

Would every family stop having children? No, of course not. Would some? I think that's a fairly safe assumption. It's a lot of work to deal with a Down's syndrome child.
The difference is that an abortion means the certainty of someone not being born. The concept of people being born because of abortion is highly speculative bordering on the absurd.
Highly speculative bordering on the absurd? There you go again. I think it's almost a rock-solid certainty that some people aren't born as a result of abortion, and that your hyerbolic overreaction proves that you know it, but just don't want to admit it.
There is nothing hyperbolic in what I stated. An abortion means a rock soild certainty that someone will not be born. There is no "almost" about it even the way you stated it. it is a rock solid certainty that some people aren't born as a result of abortion. That there are people born as a result of abortion is speculative to the point of being absurd.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Copper
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Shortstop
kathyk
Nov 14 2008, 11:58 AM
I find it exceedingly hypocritical to get on their soap boxes about forcing women to carry pregnancies they don't want, but while seeming to have so little regard for protecting the innocent born children who so badly need protecting.

It's been my experience that people who are against killing innocents are also against child abuse.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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