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What the heck is a National Civil Defense Force
Topic Started: Nov 5 2008, 02:12 PM (1,327 Views)
ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kathyk
Nov 6 2008, 01:35 PM
Yes. Check out the link. Check out his website. Check out his book, Audacity of Hope. Here are a bunch of excerpts from the book on the issue of Homeland Security. I don't of a presidential candidate who has written so extensively on his policy positions. Do you? I see nothing, anywhere about a "national civil defense force" except in the silly 30 second clip circulating on right wing blogs.
If it is "silly" then it is because (president elect) Obie said something silly.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Then, of course, there's the "softening" of his position on offshore drilling.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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kathyk
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That was not a matter of national policy rather political expediency. With his incredible popular support, he would have been crazy, not to mention suicidal to refuse donations once it became apparent how they would start pouring in.

So, can anybody find a link to the whole speech so we could have more to go on and to try to put it into context.

All I could find was this. Obama in Germany
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kathyk
Nov 6 2008, 02:01 PM
That was not a matter of national policy rather political expediency. With his incredible popular support, he would have been crazy, not to mention suicidal to refuse donations once it became apparent how they would start pouring in.
Of course, Kathy. Thank you for admitting that (president elect) Obie is all about political expediency over principles. Just what we need in a leader.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kathyk
Nov 6 2008, 02:01 PM
That was not a matter of national policy rather political expediency. With his incredible popular support, he would have been crazy, not to mention suicidal to refuse donations once it became apparent how they would start pouring in.
Of course, Kathy. Thank you for admitting that (president elect) Obie is all about political expediency over principles. Just what we need in a leader.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kathyk
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Luke's Dad
Nov 6 2008, 01:41 PM
Then, of course, there's the "softening" of his position on offshore drilling.
No presidential candidate has ever stayed 100% true to their campaign promises: "No nation building" "Read my lips. No new taxes" blah, blah, blah. We're not talking about a waffle on a position. Rather, people are suggesting that he's got plans for some sort of fascist security force. That would not be a small detail in policy but a rather big deal. So, where's the beef. Where do you see that he's ever contemplated such thing? Do you have more than one 20 second out of context clip from a speech?
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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kathyk
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ivorythumper
Nov 6 2008, 02:05 PM
kathyk
Nov 6 2008, 02:01 PM
That was not a matter of national policy rather political expediency. With his incredible popular support, he would have been crazy, not to mention suicidal to refuse donations once it became apparent how they would start pouring in.
Of course, Kathy. Thank you for admitting that (president elect) Obie is all about political expediency over principles. Just what we need in a leader.
But, you're okay of course with (loser)McCain changing his positions on everything from abortion, to immigration reform to off shore drilling. Must be nice to be able to live with such cognitive dissonance.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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Luke's Dad
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Out of line, Kathy. That's Senator McCain. You can put Senator in () and small type if you would like, and call him Mack, anything else is escalation.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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OperaTenor
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I thought I knew better than to open this thread. I really need to learn to trust my first instinct all the time.....



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ivorythumper
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I see Kathy didn't get the memo. "Loser" wow.

I am glad he changed from partial birth abortion -- I am not sure why he ever voted that, given his generally consistent pro life stance. I don't think any of his position shifts were as cravenly self serving as (president elect) Obie's first pontificating about the need for campaign finance reform and agreeing to abide by it, then getting greedy when it served his interests. I am sure you can equivocate between the two, since it is in your interest to do so.

I just can't imagine you ever criticizing him for anything if you can't even acknowledge that one of his first "executive "decisions (as your hubby would have it) was to renege on a matter of principle.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kathyk
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Luke's Dad
Nov 6 2008, 02:11 PM
Out of line, Kathy. That's Senator McCain. You can put Senator in () and small type if you would like, and call him Mack, anything else is escalation.
I was making a point. If IT doesn't have the decency to show some respect at this juncture (at least - my God, the guy hasn't even had a chance to screw up yet) with this juvenile (president elect) Obie, then he should understand how it might feel coming from the other direction - a little lesson in empathy.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
The hypocrisy is palpable and quite breathtaking.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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QuirtEvans
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ivorythumper
Nov 6 2008, 02:28 PM
I see Kathy didn't get the memo. "Loser" wow.

I am glad he changed from partial birth abortion -- I am not sure why he ever voted that, given his generally consistent pro life stance. I don't think any of his position shifts were as cravenly self serving as (president elect) Obie's first pontificating about the need for campaign finance reform and agreeing to abide by it, then getting greedy when it served his interests. I am sure you can equivocate between the two, since it is in your interest to do so.

I just can't imagine you ever criticizing him for anything if you can't even acknowledge that one of his first "executive "decisions (as your hubby would have it) was to renege on a matter of principle.
In strict contract terms, an offer is rescindable until it's accepted. He rescinded before it was accepted. Nothing dishonorable about that.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
That would mean something if it were a contract and not a political pontification about the need to reform campaign finance.

"The argument is not that I'm pristine, because I'm swimming in the same muddy water, ... The argument is that I know it's muddy and I want to clean it up." Riiiiiight -- I guess it takes $600M to clean it up.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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ivorythumper
Nov 6 2008, 05:00 PM
That would mean something if it were a contract and not a political pontification about the need to reform campaign finance.

"The argument is not that I'm pristine, because I'm swimming in the same muddy water, ... The argument is that I know it's muddy and I want to clean it up." Riiiiiight -- I guess it takes $600M to clean it up.
Even in politics, you have to fight using the same rules as your opponent.

And you can't leave him sitting there with a perpetual option to accept your proposal.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
McCain had already agreed to it. And reaffirmed his commitment to it. Obama is the one who reneged.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
kathyk
Nov 6 2008, 02:05 PM
Luke's Dad
Nov 6 2008, 01:41 PM
Then, of course, there's the "softening" of his position on offshore drilling.
No presidential candidate has ever stayed 100% true to their campaign promises: "No nation building" "Read my lips. No new taxes" blah, blah, blah. We're not talking about a waffle on a position. Rather, people are suggesting that he's got plans for some sort of fascist security force. That would not be a small detail in policy but a rather big deal. So, where's the beef. Where do you see that he's ever contemplated such thing? Do you have more than one 20 second out of context clip from a speech?
Nah, Obama was promising free bubble-up and rainbow stew, and he won't deliver his brownshirt army. In fact, I kinda doubt he'll make good on any of his campaign promises. A couple of reasons...

1. Watch what pols do, not what they say. The man has never accomplished anything in the political realm. I don't think he's going to be able to do so this time.

2. He's already back-tracking. Look at what he had to say, first rattle out of the box...hey, I can't do x right now, or maybe not in the first couple of years, or maybe in the first term, or maybe not even in the second term (yeah, I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist). Today his camp was talking about leaving the Bush tax cuts in place for a bit longer, because of the economy.

As I said, Carter II....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Frank_W
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I said, months ago, that he reminded me of Carter. The current global economic and energy situation reminds me of the Carter years, too. :unsure:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Friday
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kathyk
Nov 6 2008, 02:08 PM
ivorythumper
Nov 6 2008, 02:05 PM
kathyk
Nov 6 2008, 02:01 PM
That was not a matter of national policy rather political expediency. With his incredible popular support, he would have been crazy, not to mention suicidal to refuse donations once it became apparent how they would start pouring in.
Of course, Kathy. Thank you for admitting that (president elect) Obie is all about political expediency over principles. Just what we need in a leader.
But, you're okay of course with (loser)McCain changing his positions on everything from abortion, to immigration reform to off shore drilling. Must be nice to be able to live with such cognitive dissonance.
I tried. I really really tried, but I just couldn't let this one go.

Kathy you are being mean and small.

Over at the local headquarters for "loser" Senator McCain, volunteers put up a huge sign. Want to know what it said? "Congratulations President Elect Obama."

Empathy my cute little butt... :veryangry:

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kathyk
Nov 6 2008, 03:16 PM
Luke's Dad
Nov 6 2008, 02:11 PM
Out of line, Kathy. That's Senator McCain. You can put Senator in () and small type if you would like, and call him Mack, anything else is escalation.
I was making a point. If IT doesn't have the decency to show some respect at this juncture (at least - my God, the guy hasn't even had a chance to screw up yet) with this juvenile (president elect) Obie, then he should understand how it might feel coming from the other direction - a little lesson in empathy.
Empathy for whom? Obama? You once again miss the obvious point that some of your leftist colleagues here kept referring to him as PRESIDENT OBAMA, and were taunting me to call him that. He is not president, he is president elect. I threw them a bone.

I doubt you teach your children to be generous by being selfish, though your method of teaching empathy would indicate otherwise.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kathyk
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Friday
Nov 6 2008, 11:19 PM
kathyk
Nov 6 2008, 02:08 PM
ivorythumper
Nov 6 2008, 02:05 PM
kathyk
Nov 6 2008, 02:01 PM
That was not a matter of national policy rather political expediency. With his incredible popular support, he would have been crazy, not to mention suicidal to refuse donations once it became apparent how they would start pouring in.
Of course, Kathy. Thank you for admitting that (president elect) Obie is all about political expediency over principles. Just what we need in a leader.
But, you're okay of course with (loser)McCain changing his positions on everything from abortion, to immigration reform to off shore drilling. Must be nice to be able to live with such cognitive dissonance.
I tried. I really really tried, but I just couldn't let this one go.

Kathy you are being mean and small.

Over at the local headquarters for "loser" Senator McCain, volunteers put up a huge sign. Want to know what it said? "Congratulations President Elect Obama."

Empathy my cute little butt... :veryangry:

Again, my sole point in using that tag was to graphically point out to IT how obnoxious and disrespectful his Obie tag was. I used it once, and have no intention of using it again. Let's see whether he follows suit. :smokin:
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I did predict he would start backing away from his promises very quickly. I did not suspect it would be the same week as the election.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
FWIW, I think Kathy has properly divined Obama's meaning regarding the quote. However, as I imagine Obama getting all wistful as he looks south toward what Chavez has accomplished, I'm a bit more concerned about a National Civil Defense Force. Still, I don't think Obama will move to create it because he knows there's no money for it.

Still, we do need better security at our ports. I continue to think that the best chance for a terrorist act would be a dirty bomb coming in a container ship and docking in Long Beach. Seriously, it couldn't be too hard to route a container thru a few different countries until it gets shipped out of South Korea to the U.S. Frankly, the fact that it hasn't happened yet seems to indicate that something is going on behind the scenes (or our enemies give us too much credit).
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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kathyk
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I think Obama will surprise you all with his moderation. I think the most radical thing we'll see is the move toward universal health coverage. Aside from that, I expect he'll reinstate something like Americorps and put together some New Deal-like program to create jobs and rebuild our sadly sagging infrastructure. We know what he's planning for tax hikes, which is basically rolling back Bush's decreases on the wealthy and he'll give tax credits for higher education expense. One of the most exciting things though is that he will have the currency to work with other countries toward peace and protecting the environment that Bush so badly squandered. Have you read about the excitement all over the globe about his election? Even conservative leaders like Merkel are thrilled. I heard on NPR that 1/3 of the Torries were openly expressing their delight which the commentator noted was unprecedented being stalwart supporters of whatever Republican is in office. The commentator then chuckled that the other 2/3s were equally delighted but afraid to say so openly.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kathyk
Nov 7 2008, 05:46 AM
Again, my sole point in using that tag was to graphically point out to IT how obnoxious and disrespectful his Obie tag was. I used it once, and have no intention of using it again. Let's see whether he follows suit. :smokin:
Again, disrespectful to whom?? Obama or you the Obama supporter? I think it must be you since Obama hasn't been here in a while since you were outed.

My dig was not at Obama but at those here on the board who seem to think that he is already president. I can't figure out why between them Quirt and OT haven't figured out that he is not president until inauguration. He president elect -- at least according to the US Constitution.

So you might want to cut out your self serving sanctimony about teaching "empathy" and "respect", unless you want us all to think that you teach your kids to be polite by being rude to them.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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