Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
in light of the current financial crisis; question
Topic Started: Oct 6 2008, 05:58 AM (352 Views)
apple
one of the angels
why would one remain committed to a conservative approach to the economy?

this is a serious question.
it behooves me to behold
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
Do you believe conservative policies are the cause of the current financial situation?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Klaus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
It's Bush's fault! :yelling:
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
If it is then conservative policies had nothing to do with it.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
apple
one of the angels
JBryan
Oct 6 2008, 09:05 AM
Do you believe conservative policies are the cause of the current financial situation?

yes and no..

mostly yes. do you think I am wrong?
it behooves me to behold
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Phlebas
Member Avatar
Bull-Carp
I don't think the question is as much "why would you," as it is "how many people will."

It depends on how bad things get. If things get bad enough, I could see a shift happening where more voters want the government stepping in more.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
I think its safe to say that the blanket ideological call for less regulation is pretty thoroughly discredited, and will remain so for at least 3-5 years. (maybe much more if this gets worse)

Lets hope that the regulations that are written in response to this mess are done wisely.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
apple
Oct 6 2008, 09:58 AM
why would one remain committed to a conservative approach to the economy?

this is a serious question.

Apple........


:banghead:


if we'd taken a "conservative approach to the economy" this wouldn't be happening in the first place.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
Yeah, Larry's right. There were no bubbles prior to 1932. Or bank failures.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lindy
Member Avatar
Middle Aged Carp
jon-nyc
Oct 6 2008, 10:49 AM
I think its safe to say that the blanket ideological call for less regulation is pretty thoroughly discredited, and will remain so for at least 3-5 years. (maybe much more if this gets worse)

Lets hope that the regulations that are written in response to this mess are done wisely.

Aren't regulations that WERE written in just as much to blame for our current economic situation as regulations that WEREN'T written in?

Good luck to us all with the "done wisely" part. :lol:
Kubota B-Series Tractors
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ringo - "I am the best drummer in the world."
Lennon - "He's not even the best drummer in the band."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
Like what specifically?
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lindy
Member Avatar
Middle Aged Carp
I'm no economist, I don't even play one on TV, and I don't like confrontation too much. My economic experience is pretty much limited to figuring out how to pay off my tractor early. But...

Didn't the push to have everyone own a house, and the regulations that were written in to force that goal, ultimately cause part of the problem?

Again, I'm just looking to understand the situation. Seems as though there's plenty of blame to spread around to lots of areas.
Kubota B-Series Tractors
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ringo - "I am the best drummer in the world."
Lennon - "He's not even the best drummer in the band."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
I agree there was plenty of blame to go around. The thing about bubbles is they tend to take in most people, so whatever corner you want to look for blame in, you can usually find some. The key is to rise above the temptation to look only in those corners that you were disinclined to like before the bubble. When I see people blaming (pick one) Wall Street, liberal do-gooders, or deregulation, my reaction is skepticism.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Lindy
Oct 6 2008, 10:25 AM
I'm no economist, I don't even play one on TV, and I don't like confrontation too much. My economic experience is pretty much limited to figuring out how to pay off my tractor early. But...

Didn't the push to have everyone own a house, and the regulations that were written in to force that goal, ultimately cause part of the problem?

Again, I'm just looking to understand the situation. Seems as though there's plenty of blame to spread around to lots of areas.

It's one of the great conservative myths. They can't manage to escape the failures of the last eight years, so they have to try to find something else ... something that happened pre-Bush ... to blame it all on.

Once again, with feeling:

The CRA had nothing, nothing, nothing to do with zero down, no verification loans. You are not required, under the CRA, to make a zero down, no verification loan. All you're required to do is sell in lower-income areas on the same basis that you sell in higher-income areas. If you require money down in both places, fine. If you verify income in both places, fine. If you require a minimum credit score, I think that's fine, too.

And that is the basis of the current mess. Crap loans. Not crap because of where they were, but crap because the lending standards of earlier decades were tossed away.

Jon mentioned the four areas with the highest mortgage default rates. Florida, Las Vegas, San Diego, and one other that I cannot remember. But do those three sound like inner-city, low-income areas?
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Blame is a prerequisite for finding appropriate regulations. It's nice to be nihilistic about blame and say everybody's at fault but it's a roadblock to progress.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
Its not hard to find behaviors that proved to be dangerous and put in regulations to prevent them from happening again (e.g. 100% LTV mortgages, exploding arms, etc.).

Its pretty much impossible to prevent bubbles. There have been bubbles throughout recorded history, there will be more.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
QuirtEvans
Oct 6 2008, 07:49 AM
Lindy
Oct 6 2008, 10:25 AM
I'm no economist, I don't even play one on TV, and I don't like confrontation too much.  My economic experience is pretty much limited to figuring out how to pay off my tractor early.  But...

Didn't the push to have everyone own a house, and the regulations that were written in to force that goal, ultimately cause part of the problem?

Again, I'm just looking to understand the situation.  Seems as though there's plenty of blame to spread around to lots of areas.

It's one of the great conservative myths. They can't manage to escape the failures of the last eight years, so they have to try to find something else ... something that happened pre-Bush ... to blame it all on.

Once again, with feeling:

The CRA had nothing, nothing, nothing to do with zero down, no verification loans. You are not required, under the CRA, to make a zero down, no verification loan. All you're required to do is sell in lower-income areas on the same basis that you sell in higher-income areas. If you require money down in both places, fine. If you verify income in both places, fine. If you require a minimum credit score, I think that's fine, too.

And that is the basis of the current mess. Crap loans. Not crap because of where they were, but crap because the lending standards of earlier decades were tossed away.

Jon mentioned the four areas with the highest mortgage default rates. Florida, Las Vegas, San Diego, and one other that I cannot remember. But do those three sound like inner-city, low-income areas?

50 years ago it was easier to have a house, job, and family than it is today. It's more difficult even after 50 years of technological advancement which allows more production for less human work.

That's all anybody needs to know, if they're wondering whether our economy is profoundly f'cked up.

I'm not sure who has all the extra money, but I DON'T THINK IT'S THE BLACK PEOPLE.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
jon-nyc
Oct 6 2008, 07:54 AM
Its not hard to find behaviors that proved to be dangerous and put in regulations to prevent them from happening again (e.g. 100% LTV mortgages, exploding arms, etc.).

Its pretty much impossible to prevent bubbles. There have been bubbles throughout recorded history, there will be more.

Nobody ever said anything about regulations to prevent all bubbles.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
QuirtEvans
Oct 6 2008, 09:49 AM
iThe CRA had nothing, nothing, nothing to do with zero down, no verification loans. You are not required, under the CRA, to make a zero down, no verification loan.

No, but it encouraged them by mandating equal lending across all economic areas. It was not a hard mandate but a bank had to maintain a certain CRA score to keep doing business and that score was oiten determined by outcomes based methods by bureaucrats.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Our economy ceased being run by conservative values the moment the Federal Reserve was chartered.
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
big al
Member Avatar
Bull-Carp
Mark, you keep railing against the Federal Reserve, but look at what happened prior to its establishment. We've had a lot fewer financial panics and disasters over the past 100 years than we had in the 100 years preceding the FR.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Learn More · Register Now
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply